From popmail Fri Dec 27 21:52:33 1996 Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 10:56:39 -0800 From: Da Borg MIME-Version: 1.0 To: idan@m-tech.ab.ca, linux-biz@lege.com CC: Red Hat Mailing List Subject: Dejanews's using Linux? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO Hi, Today I was pointed out that the biggest public Usenet database, http://www.dejanews.com, is powered by SMP Linux on x86. Check: http://web1.dejanews.com/dnabout.html Regards, Da Borg From popmail Mon Jan 6 10:33:22 1997 Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 18:03:18 -0700 (MST) From: Idan Shoham To: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: web site MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Hi all! Has this list been slow lately, or have I been dropped from the list? Hmm... In either case -- I've updated the "anecdotal references" web site, at http://www.m-tech.ab.ca/linux-biz. In addition to adding some entries, I've setup an HTML form and CGI script to allow people to update information on the site. Please check out both the site and form, and send me feedback. After a bit of clean-up, I'll send a note to comp.os.www.announce and comp.os.linux.announce about this page. Regards, -- Idan Shoham, M-Tech idan@m-tech.ab.ca http://www.m-tech.ab.ca From popmail Sat Jan 11 14:00:51 1997 Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 11:53:19 +0100 (MET) From: Leif Erlingsson To: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: HOWTO/mini/Advocacy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Status: RO I would just like to draw your attention to this mini-howto.... Linux Advocacy mini-HOWTO Paul L. Rogers, Paul.L.Rogers@li.org v0.3, 13 November 1996 This document provides suggestions for how the Linux community can effectively advocate the use of Linux. 1. About this document This is the Linux Advocacy HOWTO and is intended to provide guidelines and ideas to assist with your Linux advocacy efforts. This HOWTO was inspired by Jon ``maddog'' Hall when he responded to a request for feedback on guidelines for advocating Linux during NetDay96 activities. He responded positively to the guidelines and observed that they were the basis of a list of ``canons of conduct'' that would benefit the Linux community. The author and maintainer of the Linux Advocacy HOWTO is Paul L. Rogers . Comments and proposed additions are welcome. If you need to know more about the Linux Documentation Project or about Linux HOWTO's, feel free to contact the supervisor Greg Hankins . Greg Hankins will post this document to several national and international newsgroups on a monthly basis. 2. Copyright Information This HOWTO is Copyright © 1996 by Paul L. Rogers. All rights reserved. A verbatim copy may be reproduced or distributed in any medium physical or electronic without permission of the author. Translations are similarly permitted without express permission if it includes a notice on who translated it. Short quotes may be used without prior consent by the author. Derivative work and partial distributions of the Advocacy HOWTO must be accompanied with either a verbatim copy of this file or a pointer to the verbatim copy. Commercial redistribution is allowed and encouraged; however, the author would like to be notified of any such distributions. In short, we wish to promote dissemination of this information through as many channels as possible. However, we do wish to retain copyright on the HOWTO documents, and would like to be notified of any plans to redistribute the HOWTOs. We further want that all information provided in the HOWTOs is disseminated. If you have questions, please contact Greg Hankins, the Linux HOWTO coordinator, at gregh@sunsite.unc.edu. 3. Introduction The Linux community has known for some time that for many applications, Linux is a stable, reliable, robust (although not perfect) product. Unfortunately, there are still many people, including key decision-makers, that are not aware of the existence of Linux and its capabilities. If Linux and the many other components that make up a Linux distribution are to reach their full potential, it is critical that we reach out to prospective ``customers'' and advocate (being careful not to promise too much) the use of Linux for appropriate applications. The reason that many company's products have done well in the marketplace is not so much due to the product's technical superiority but the company's marketing abilities. If you enjoy using Linux and would like to contribute something to the Linux community, please consider acting on one or more of the ideas in this HOWTO and help others learn more about Linux. 4. Related Information Lars Wirzenius also has some thoughts about Linux advocacy. Linux International's goal is to promote the development and use of Linux. The Linux Documentation Project is an invaluable resource for Linux advocates. The Linux Advocacy Project's goal is to encourage commercial application developers to provide native Linux versions of their software. The Linux CD and Support Giveaway program is helping make Linux more widely available by encouraging the reuse of Linux CD- ROMs. Specialized Systems Consultants, Inc. (SSC) publishes the Linux Journal as well as the Linux Gazette , an online newsletter. 5. Advocating Linux · Share your personal experiences (good and bad) with Linux. Everyone knows that software has bugs and limitations and if we only have glowing comments about Linux, we aren't being honest. I love to tell people about having to reboot four times (three scheduled) in three years. · If someone has a problem that Linux may be able to solve, offer to provide pointers to appropriate information (Web pages, magazine articles, books, consultants, ...). If you haven't actually used the proposed solution, say so. · Offer to help someone start using Linux. · Try to respond to one ``newbie'' posting each week. Seek out the tough questions, you may be the only one to respond and you may learn something in the process. However, if you aren't confident that you can respond with the correct answer, find someone that can. · Seek out small software development firms and offer to make a presentation about Linux. · If the opportunity arises, make a presentation to your employer's Information Technology group. · If you need an application that is not supported on Linux, contact the vendor and request a native Linux version. · Participate in community events such as NetDay96 . While your first priority must be to contribute to the success of the event, use the opportunity to let others know what Linux can do for them. · Always consider the viewpoints of the person to which you are ``selling'' Linux. Support, reliability, interoperability and cost are all factors that a decision-maker must consider. Of the above, cost is often the least important portion of the equation. · Point out that the production of freely available software takes place in an environment of open collaboration between system architects, programmers, writers, alpha/beta testers and end users which often results in well documented, robust products such as Emacs, Perl and the Linux kernel. · Report successful efforts of promoting Linux to Linux International (li@li.org) and similar organizations. · Find a new home for Linux CD-ROMs and books that you no longer need. Give them to someone interested in Linux, a public library or a school computer club. A book and its CD-ROM would be most appropriate for a library. However, please be sure that making the CD-ROM publicly available does not violate a licensing agreement or copyright. Also, inform the library staff that the material on the CD-ROM is freely distributable. Follow up to make sure it is available on the shelves. 6. Canons of Conduct · As a representative of the Linux community, participate in mailing list and newsgroup discussions in a professional manner. Refrain from name-calling and use of vulgar language. Consider yourself a member of a virtual corporation with Mr. Torvalds as your CEO. Your words will either enhance or degrade the image the reader has of the Linux community. · Avoid hyperbole and unsubstantiated claims at all costs. It's unprofessional and will result in unproductive discussions. · A thoughtful, well-reasoned response to a posting will not only provide insight for your readers, but will also increase their respect for your knowledge and abilities. · Don't bite if offered flame-bait. Too many threads degenerate into a ``My O/S is better than your O/S'' argument. Let's accurately describe the capabilities of Linux and leave it at that. · Always remember that if you insult or are disrespectful to someone, their negative experience may be shared with many others. If you do offend someone, please try to make amends. · Focus on what Linux has to offer. There is no need to bash the competition. We have a good, solid product that stands on its own. · Respect the use of other operating systems. While Linux is a wonderful platform, it does not meet everyone's needs. · Refer to another product by its proper name. There's nothing to be gained by attempting to ridicule a company or its products by using ``creative spelling''. If we expect respect for Linux, we must respect other products. · Give credit where credit is due. Linux is just the kernel. Without the efforts of people involved with the GNU project, MIT, Berkeley and others too numerous to mention, the Linux kernel would not be very useful to most people. · Don't insist that Linux is the only answer for a particular application. Just as the Linux community cherishes the freedom that Linux provides them, Linux only solutions would deprive others of their freedom. · There will be cases where Linux is not the answer. Be the first to recognize this and offer another solution. 7. User Groups · Participate in a local user's group. If one does not exist in your area, start one. · Make speakers available to organizations interested in Linux. · Issue press releases about your activities to your local media. · Discus the Linux Advocacy HOWTO at a meeting. Brainstorm and submit new ideas. 8. Acknowledgements Grateful acknowledgement is made to all contributors, including: Jon "maddog" Hall Greg Hankins Eric Ladner Martin Michlmayr C. J. Suire Lars Wirzenius -- Leif Erlingsson http://www.geocities.com/RodeoDrive/1998 +46 8 604-0995 Stockholm, Sweden, Tellus, Milky Way, Gods Universe. FAX +46 8 605-2551 From popmail Wed Jan 15 00:01:01 1997 Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 05:15:27 -0800 (PST) From: Allen Francom To: Leif Erlingsson cc: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Re: $ wc -l linux-biz 213 linux-biz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO On Tue, 14 Jan 1997, Leif Erlingsson wrote: > We are 213 members on linux-biz ... have we said all there is to say about > linux in a business environment already, or has the discussion moved else- > where? I for one have been extremely busy, so much so as to not have the time or energy left to post. I've been curious about what happened and where the action has gone. Perhaps the list needs more specific guidelines ? THX -AEF From popmail Wed Jan 15 00:01:11 1997 Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 21:52:47 +0100 (MET) From: Leif Erlingsson To: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: $ wc -l linux-biz 213 linux-biz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO $ wc -l linux-biz 213 linux-biz We are 213 members on linux-biz ... have we said all there is to say about linux in a business environment already, or has the discussion moved else- where? -- Leif Erlingsson http://www.geocities.com/RodeoDrive/1998 +46 8 604-0995 Stockholm, Sweden, Tellus, Milky Way, Gods Universe. FAX +46 8 605-2551 From popmail Wed Jan 15 00:01:16 1997 Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 16:24:28 +0000 (GMT) From: "exec@prysm.net (Eric L. Green)" To: linux-biz@lege.com cc: Leif Erlingsson Subject: Re: $ wc -l linux-biz 213 linux-biz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Perhaps we're all too busy doing linux bizness :-). Question: Anybody here do networking? I have a client who wants fiber links between buildings on a campus, all hooked up in a star configuration from the central (administration) building. I plan on using an existing Linux box as a router to divide the network up. The problem: once we get to the building, I have to go from fiber down to 10base-T or 10base-2. (The purpose of the fiber, by the way, isn't speed -- it's because this fellow's had to replace thousands of dollars of equipment due to poor electrical grounding of his campus, and is tired of it). So: My guess is that I need: a) an AUI-to-FOIRL transciever on the network card on the Linux router, b) a FOIRL-to-10base(x) REPEATER at the other end. Question #1: Can I reduce the # of network cards I need by using an AUI fanout at the central Linux hub for my transcievers? (Note that network cards are cheaper than repeaters, by the way). Question #2: Any "gotchas" I need to be wary of? -- Eric Lee Green exec@prysm.net From popmail Wed Jan 15 06:04:26 1997 Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 19:15:30 -0500 (EST) From: "Joseph L. Hartmann, Jr." To: Leif Erlingsson cc: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Re: $ wc -l linux-biz 213 linux-biz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO On Tue, 14 Jan 1997, Leif Erlingsson wrote: > > $ wc -l linux-biz > 213 linux-biz > > > We are 213 members on linux-biz ... have we said all there is to say about > linux in a business environment already, or has the discussion moved else- > where? Don't know. But I wonder if this is the fate of "new movements"? It is not easy to sustain a continued interest in doing things. I think the history of debian, linux itself, and the FSF sort of bears this out. It takes a *lot* of work by some dedicated individuals. This is not to say there are not dedicated individuals in linux-biz, but there is *SO MUCH* out here on the net vying for our interest..... It seems to me that a lot of the traffic on linux-biz was "wouldn't it be nice if we had ....." What is the *output* of such a theme? Debian and FSF have a focus -- it is to produce output -- a distribition in the case of debian, and more free gnu software in the case of the FSF. These efforts require the dedicated and directed effort of *many* volunteers. The efforts are usually defined as "projects" that an individual volunteer will "take on". I have not detected this viewpoint from the linux biz traffic. Perhaps, like me, others on the list have been "snagged" by other projects. It would be interesting to see the comments from the 212 about what they expect from the list. When I joined I was hoping to see a linux "distribution" that installed as seamlessly as Windows-95. With a common look-and-feel to all the tools that ran under the linux-biz "distribution". Probably an off-the-wall expectation. Are there 212 more off-the-wall expectations? Best Regards, Joe Hartmann Tel: (603) 863 6073 K2AJV -issued email: joeh@sugar-river.net 1951 home-page: http://www.sugar-river.net/~joeh ------------------------------------------------------------- First Student at the: Linux Academy in the Sunshine Town of Newport, NH Thanks to RMS, Linus, and other contributors of free software! ------------- I grant this to the public domain ------------- > > > -- Leif Erlingsson http://www.geocities.com/RodeoDrive/1998 +46 8 604-0995 > Stockholm, Sweden, Tellus, Milky Way, Gods Universe. FAX +46 8 605-2551 > > > > From popmail Wed Jan 15 06:05:05 1997 Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 23:40:22 +0100 (MET) From: Kris Carlier To: Leif Erlingsson cc: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Re: $ wc -l linux-biz 213 linux-biz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Leif, > We are 213 members on linux-biz ... have we said all there is to say about > linux in a business environment already, or has the discussion moved else- > where? You asked for it ;-) I was wondering whether someone overhere is using LOGICS software on a linux-system. Logics is a package that allows clients, using different kinds of operating environments (we use Dos, Windows (incl. Win95 and NT) and OS/2) to access SIEMENS mainframes using terminal emulation or for file transfer. Actually, we run the emulation gateway on SINIX-servers. As this ends in -IX, it can't be bad ? Well... it ain't bad indeed. If you don't mind statements like "the 'man' COMMAND is free, of course it's included ! The man PAGES ? Well, you should buy them, mind you, it's for your very best sake... You don't wanna fill your harddisks with man-pages (never heard about optional installations I presume). I guess the same goes for their compiler... optional stuff. etc etc etc etc... RE-installing a machine takes about one day... HW is pure 80x86. I *guess* that the machines should perform a little better under linux, in their current configuration... Also, it could help us better to defend that solution against the NT-version, which doesn't (afaik) exist (yet) ;-) Anybody on this list who has ever heard about it yet ? I guess I should try with IBCS first, but this will require me to install it on one of my personal boxes. I'd like to be sure nobody else found out there's warm water coming from the right crane ;-) kr= \\\___/// \\ - - // ( @ @ ) +---------------oOOo-(_)-oOOo-------------+ | kris carlier - carlier@iguana.be | | Hiroshima 45, Tsjernobyl 86, Windows 95 | | Linux, the choice of a GNU gener8ion | +------------------------Oooo-------------+ oooO ( ) ( ) ) / \ ( (_/ \_) From popmail Wed Jan 15 06:05:32 1997 Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 15:22:59 -0700 (MST) From: Idan Shoham To: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Re: $ wc -l linux-biz 213 linux-biz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO I don't think we've said all there is to say... The visitation and updates to the "anecdotal references" site seem to indicate a strong interest... There have been about 500-600 hits/day on this stuff. Perhaps there are more people "listening" than "talking"? ;-) -- Idan Shoham, M-Tech idan@m-tech.ab.ca http://www.m-tech.ab.ca P.S. that site is at http://www.m-tech.ab.ca/linux-biz On Tue, 14 Jan 1997, Leif Erlingsson wrote: > > $ wc -l linux-biz > 213 linux-biz > > > We are 213 members on linux-biz ... have we said all there is to say about > linux in a business environment already, or has the discussion moved else- > where? > > > -- Leif Erlingsson http://www.geocities.com/RodeoDrive/1998 +46 8 604-0995 > Stockholm, Sweden, Tellus, Milky Way, Gods Universe. FAX +46 8 605-2551 > > > From popmail Wed Jan 15 06:06:37 1997 Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 19:15:30 -0500 (EST) From: "Joseph L. Hartmann, Jr." To: Leif Erlingsson cc: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Re: $ wc -l linux-biz 213 linux-biz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO On Tue, 14 Jan 1997, Leif Erlingsson wrote: > > $ wc -l linux-biz > 213 linux-biz > > > We are 213 members on linux-biz ... have we said all there is to say about > linux in a business environment already, or has the discussion moved else- > where? Don't know. But I wonder if this is the fate of "new movements"? It is not easy to sustain a continued interest in doing things. I think the history of debian, linux itself, and the FSF sort of bears this out. It takes a *lot* of work by some dedicated individuals. This is not to say there are not dedicated individuals in linux-biz, but there is *SO MUCH* out here on the net vying for our interest..... It seems to me that a lot of the traffic on linux-biz was "wouldn't it be nice if we had ....." What is the *output* of such a theme? Debian and FSF have a focus -- it is to produce output -- a distribition in the case of debian, and more free gnu software in the case of the FSF. These efforts require the dedicated and directed effort of *many* volunteers. The efforts are usually defined as "projects" that an individual volunteer will "take on". I have not detected this viewpoint from the linux biz traffic. Perhaps, like me, others on the list have been "snagged" by other projects. It would be interesting to see the comments from the 212 about what they expect from the list. When I joined I was hoping to see a linux "distribution" that installed as seamlessly as Windows-95. With a common look-and-feel to all the tools that ran under the linux-biz "distribution". Probably an off-the-wall expectation. Are there 212 more off-the-wall expectations? Best Regards, Joe Hartmann Tel: (603) 863 6073 K2AJV -issued email: joeh@sugar-river.net 1951 home-page: http://www.sugar-river.net/~joeh ------------------------------------------------------------- First Student at the: Linux Academy in the Sunshine Town of Newport, NH Thanks to RMS, Linus, and other contributors of free software! ------------- I grant this to the public domain ------------- > > > -- Leif Erlingsson http://www.geocities.com/RodeoDrive/1998 +46 8 604-0995 > Stockholm, Sweden, Tellus, Milky Way, Gods Universe. FAX +46 8 605-2551 > > > > From popmail Wed Jan 15 06:07:24 1997 Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 21:21:45 -0500 From: Nathan John Grass Subject: Re: $ wc -l linux-biz 213 linux-biz To: Idan Shoham Cc: linux-biz@lege.com MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Status: RO Idan Shoham wrote: > Perhaps there are more people "listening" than "talking"? That'd be me :) I do enjoy the fact that there is not *much* spam like mail on this list (the sort like this that just fills up my inbox). That is one reason I have kept my subscription to the list. For those who have posted valuable notes, thanks, and also to those who have refrained from idle chat / spam notes... Nate... From popmail Wed Jan 15 08:25:48 1997 Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 22:09:43 -0800 From: Rob Walker To: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: kinda techie question... Status: RO Pretty much a security question here.... I have a question in regards to a customers' needs. They have an 'application' which they connect to via dial up. They are trying to begin these transactions via the 'Net. As it is now, their firewall allows connections from _any_ host on the 'Net to the 'application server' (an IBM ??? running a CICS application), using tn3270 emulation. However, security through obscurity is not their idea of a good time. Also, as their application concerns flow-of-monies, they do not like the idea of unencrypted traffic. Their users will be dialing up the users' own ISP, and then making a tn3270 connection to the application server. The other fly in the ointment is that they have this IBM machine running VMS??? or NT boxen all over the place. I am sure you can imagine my response to this all. On the outside of the firewall, put a linux box, running sshd, have all the users make ssh connections (with their wind-blows boxes) to the linux machine, and have the linux machine automagically make the connection for the user to the tn3270 app-server. The other bonus to this is that the firewall only has to allow connections from the outside network to the inside network from one host to another. That is my solution, but I am not sure how to implement it. My first guess would be to make sure nothing is in /etc/services except sshd (I am assuming it is there...), but I am not smart enough to know what *must* be left on and what can be nuked, to be as secure as possible. tia, Rob From popmail Wed Jan 15 08:25:48 1997 Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 16:29:09 +1100 (EST) From: Robert Hart To: "exec@prysm.net (Eric L. Green)" cc: Linux Business Discussion Group Subject: Re: $ wc -l linux-biz 213 linux-biz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO On Tue, 14 Jan 1997, exec@prysm.net (Eric L. Green) wrote: > Question: Anybody here do networking? Yup - me for one. > I have a client who wants fiber links between buildings on a campus, all > hooked up in a star configuration from the central (administration) > building. I plan on using an existing Linux box as a router to divide the > network up. The problem: once we get to the building, I have to go from > fiber down to 10base-T or 10base-2. (The purpose of the fiber, by the way, > isn't speed -- it's because this fellow's had to replace thousands of > dollars of equipment due to poor electrical grounding of his campus, and > is tired of it). You don't say exactly what sort of fibre system you are going to use - straight FDDI (100Mb/s), ethernet by fibre (10Mb/s), 100Tx or 100Tf. Depending on the budget and need (traffic) I would look at 100Tf (full duplex fast ethernet by fibre (which requires two fibre pairs per run) but provides a theoretical 200Mb/s throughput. Care to give a bit more info? Robert Hart hartr@interweft.com.au Voice: +61 (0)3 9735 3586 http://www.interweft.com.au/ InterWeft, 35 Summit Road, Lilydale, Victoria 3140, Australia IT, data and voice networking Strategic IT business planning Internet planning, implementation, security and configuration From popmail Wed Jan 15 23:02:18 1997 Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 22:44:52 -0800 (PST) From: Dwight Johnson To: Linux-Business Subject: Linux Journal Buyer's Guide MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO The Linux Journal is publishing its 1997 Buyer's Guide in February. This promises to be a really good source of Linux vendors and businesspeople. The catch is that they want you to be a subscriber by January 25 to get the free guide. I don't know if it is also for sale. Dwight Johnson From popmail Wed Jan 15 23:02:42 1997 Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 09:19:30 +0200 (SAT) From: Dr Evan Summers To: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Re: $ wc -l linux-biz 213 linux-biz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO > We are 213 members on linux-biz ... have we said all there is to say about > linux in a business environment already, or has the discussion moved else- > where? Well, I'm a newbie, and haven't said anything yet, so I'll throw in my two pennies, all the way from South Africa. I know of one major corporate success story (apart from 100's of little ones in the Internet industry). There's a major clothing retailing chain in South Africa whose *entire* central processing, warehouse, and each of their 150 stores (well, down here, that's what we call a major chain), including all point-of-sales, are running Linux. (Each store uses overnight UUCP to transfer data to central.) Rolling out 500 Linux PC's in one hit was an interesting challenge for the supplier's system engineer, Dr Alex Harin (alex@.ucs.co.za), but took only a few weeks all told. The client was very happy to save on 500 SCO licenses, and has been even happier to see that Linux works like a dream, better than SCO. How they the supplier was able to offer Linux instead of SCO though, was because they have their own 4GL system (which uses C-Tree for the databases). So they just recompiled the 4GL runtime under Linux -- simple as that! Regards Evan ---------------------------------------------------------------|-----|-- Evan Summers, PhD Tel +27 82 900-8632 Symphony /|\ /|\ Internet systems integration http://sr.co.za Research { } { } Johannesburg, South Africa mailto:evan@sr.co.za (Pty)Ltd {___} {___} Importers and distributors * Cyclades Corp * Emerging Technologies, Inc Suppliers of * Pentium Internet routers and servers * Microcom modems From popmail Wed Jan 15 23:03:25 1997 Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 00:37:40 -0700 (MST) From: Idan Shoham To: Rob Walker cc: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Re: kinda techie question... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Rob, I suggest you setup a Debian box, as that distribution seems to come fairly clean. If you're not too familiar with this, hire someone to configure it for you -- I have someone in town that does Linux box configs for $100CDN, which is cheaper than my time... Be sure to install a kernel with IP firewalling installed... After that, you should disable things in /etc/inetd.conf, rather than in /etc/services. You should remove ftp, telnet, finger, mail, news, tftp, etc. Basically, log in, STAY logged in, remove anything you don't _know_ you need, and see if the machine acts weird. (don't forget to killall -1 inetd to reload /etc/inetd.conf). Next, setup IP firealling, to deny everything, and let in just ssh connections. Put in accounts for every user, and setup "tn3270 hostname" as their login shell. On your firewall box, as you suggested earlier, you should only allow telnet connections from the Linux box. If possible, you should also put in some sort of filtering to ensure that socket connections that claim to come from the Linux box's IP address are also from that box's MAC address. Your ability to do this will depend on the intelligence of the firewall you have installed. Please remember that if your PC users are to connect to sshd, then they will need a PC/Windoze implementation of ssh, which I believe is commercial software. Your next step is selling the solution. DON'T sell them on the idea of "Linux is so great because..." Instead, tell them that they need a reliable, maintenance-free, secure box outside their firewall that carries out the function described above. Sell them on the solution, not the operating system. When you convince them that this is the secure / economical / feasible way to do things, _then_ say that you can do it with a PC Unix flavour called Linux, and back up the support / reliability / open architecture / etc. of Linux if necessary. Good luck! If you need more help, give me a ring at (403) 233-0740 -- we do this sort of thing for a living. ;-) Regards, -- Idan Shoham, M-Tech idan@m-tech.ab.ca http://www.m-tech.ab.ca On Tue, 14 Jan 1997, Rob Walker wrote: > > Pretty much a security question here.... > > I have a question in regards to a customers' needs. They have an > 'application' which they connect to via dial up. They are trying to > begin these transactions via the 'Net. > > As it is now, their firewall allows connections from _any_ host on the > 'Net to the 'application server' (an IBM ??? running a CICS > application), using tn3270 emulation. However, security through > obscurity is not their idea of a good time. > > Also, as their application concerns flow-of-monies, they do not like > the idea of unencrypted traffic. Their users will be dialing up the > users' own ISP, and then making a tn3270 connection to the application > server. > > The other fly in the ointment is that they have this IBM machine > running VMS??? or NT boxen all over the place. > > > I am sure you can imagine my response to this all. On the outside of > the firewall, put a linux box, running sshd, have all the users make > ssh connections (with their wind-blows boxes) to the linux machine, > and have the linux machine automagically make the connection for the > user to the tn3270 app-server. The other bonus to this is that the > firewall only has to allow connections from the outside network to the > inside network from one host to another. > > That is my solution, but I am not sure how to implement it. My first > guess would be to make sure nothing is in /etc/services except sshd (I > am assuming it is there...), but I am not smart enough to know what > *must* be left on and what can be nuked, to be as secure as possible. > > tia, > Rob > From popmail Wed Jan 15 23:03:36 1997 Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 00:00:31 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Dillon To: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Re: kinda techie question... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO On Tue, 14 Jan 1997, Rob Walker wrote: > That is my solution, but I am not sure how to implement it. My first > guess would be to make sure nothing is in /etc/services except sshd (I > am assuming it is there...), but I am not smart enough to know what > *must* be left on and what can be nuked, to be as secure as possible. Good thing you asked because changing /etc/services is irrelevant. It is /etc/inetd.conf and the /etc/rc* files that need changing. Also /etc/inittab. Since you are running sshd you can disable telnetd and rlogind as well. Some people will even disable getty's on the console so that the only way to log in is sshd via the network. Take the time to remove all unneeded binaries as well such as ftpd, etc. But number 1, make sure you review all the Linux security material you can find on the web. Building a firewall can be tricky and hackers who want to get in are very smart. Michael Dillon - Internet & ISP Consulting Memra Software Inc. - Fax: +1-250-546-3049 http://www.memra.com - E-mail: michael@memra.com From popmail Wed Jan 15 23:06:38 1997 From: "Cary B. O'Brien" Subject: Re: kinda techie question... To: rob@cisco.com Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 10:07:48 -0500 (EST) Cc: linux-biz@lege.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO > > Pretty much a security question here.... > > I have a question in regards to a customers' needs. They have an > 'application' which they connect to via dial up. They are trying to > begin these transactions via the 'Net. > > As it is now, their firewall allows connections from _any_ host on the > 'Net to the 'application server' (an IBM ??? running a CICS > application), using tn3270 emulation. However, security through > obscurity is not their idea of a good time. > > Also, as their application concerns flow-of-monies, they do not like > the idea of unencrypted traffic. Their users will be dialing up the > users' own ISP, and then making a tn3270 connection to the application > server. > > The other fly in the ointment is that they have this IBM machine > running VMS??? or NT boxen all over the place. > > > I am sure you can imagine my response to this all. On the outside of > the firewall, put a linux box, running sshd, have all the users make > ssh connections (with their wind-blows boxes) to the linux machine, > and have the linux machine automagically make the connection for the > user to the tn3270 app-server. The other bonus to this is that the > firewall only has to allow connections from the outside network to the > inside network from one host to another. > That would be my approach also. Although the s/wan stuff bears investigation. Turn off IP forwarding on the linux box. You can get it to start tn3270 automatically by making this the login shell for the users. Check tn3270 for shell escapes and file transfer options -- ("Use the source, luke"). Turn them all off. > That is my solution, but I am not sure how to implement it. My first > guess would be to make sure nothing is in /etc/services except sshd (I You need to check /etc/inetd.conf , and if you have tcp wrappers (tcpd) the config file for that one also. > am assuming it is there...), but I am not smart enough to know what > *must* be left on and what can be nuked, to be as secure as possible. > As my brand-new x-files coffee cup says "The Truth is Out There" and "Trust No One" (when hot). Turn off everything except what you need. There should be more information in a security HOWTO, or the firewalls book. The SSH people could probably help, since you will have to buy it for commercial use. Good Luck, Sounds like a fun project. -- cary cobrien@access.digex.net From popmail Wed Jan 15 23:06:59 1997 Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 10:46:28 -0500 From: Ram kalapatapu To: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Sybase clients on linux Status: RO Hi all, I don't know how many of you know about this but linux is now a viable platform as a sybase client with the release of ELF version of ct-lib. During the past three weeks there have been two more ct-lib based sql clients for linux viz. ctsql and sqsh for linux. Here is the picture: 1. a.out version of ct-lib and a minimal featured sample client xisql is available from the sybase site http://www.sybase.com/Offerings/Samples/Linux 2. The ELF version of ct-lib is available from ftp://mudshark.sunquest.com:/pub/ctlib-linux-elf xisql compiles with this ELF version as well. 3. ctsql is available in source and binary form from ftp://mudshark.sunquest.com:/pub/ctsql The credit for ctsql and ELF ct-lib should go to Steve Etchelecu (se@linus.sunquest.com) 4. Beta versions of sqsh based on ct-lib is available from http://www.voicenet.com/~gray/sqsh.html ctsql and sqsh work with (x)emacs sql-mode. 5. Sybernet, a web client for sybase. Details at http://linux.sri.com 6. SybPerl for perl5 should work with the ct-lib. Try any of CPAN sites. 7. There are two JDBC sybase drivers that work with linux java including Sybase jdbcCONNECT. The above material should be sufficient to build "enterprise strength" datalinked applications in linux. Also if you want to use your SQL server efficiently you might also consider TIBCO (www.tibco.com)'s rv which has been ported to linux! Now, will someone knock some sense into those execs at sybase to come out with a port of their SQL server for linux? When will these fools realize that linux is a better bet to challenge NT than any other UNIX? Regards, Ram From popmail Wed Jan 15 23:09:16 1997 Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 03:04:02 -0800 (PST) From: Allen Francom To: exec@prysm.net cc: linux-biz@lege.com, Leif Erlingsson Subject: Re: $ wc -l linux-biz 213 linux-biz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO On Tue, 14 Jan 1997, exec@prysm.net (Eric L. Green) wrote: > Question: Anybody here do networking? > > I have a client who wants fiber links between buildings on a campus, all > hooked up in a star configuration from the central (administration) > building. I plan on using an existing Linux box as a router to divide the > network up. The problem: once we get to the building, I have to go from > fiber down to 10base-T or 10base-2. (The purpose of the fiber, by the way, > isn't speed -- it's because this fellow's had to replace thousands of > dollars of equipment due to poor electrical grounding of his campus, and > is tired of it). I've not used Linux as a router, rather things like LattisNet and AT&T ISN... This is interesting. How exactly do you envision plugging linux into things ? Also, there is "single-mode" fiber which is a good thing. I don't know if it costs a lot more, but it might give you much more flexibility in the long run. THX -AEF From popmail Wed Jan 15 23:09:33 1997 Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 17:53:56 GMT From: Paul Cummings To: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: How to become a Linux 'Solution Provider' Status: RO What do you all think is the requirements are for someone, like myself, to begin offering Linux as a product in my area. To add context about myself: I live in Scotland, and have used Linux since August 96 after a brief attempt at using it two years earlier. I have no real business experience, but have a Higher National Diploma in I.T. What would be any stumbling blocks for someone like myself? -- =============== ============================================== Paul Cummings "That's an awful lot of ships." --Ivanova paulc@sol.co.uk "That's a bloody awful lot of ships!" --Marcus =Linux=v2.0.27= ============================================== From popmail Thu Jan 16 00:01:39 1997 Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 04:35:54 -0800 (PST) From: Allen Francom To: Paul Cummings cc: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Re: How to become a Linux 'Solution Provider' MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Is there a "Linux Solution Provider" certificate or something ? Right now, I find a need and then a customer, or a customer and then a need, get requirements, get constraints, rough proposal, revise, final proposal, agree to terms, do work, meet requirements within constraints, get paid. ( Some details trimmed to save space ) I do this without any certification whatsoever, with DOS, Windows, NT, Netware, and Linux. ( I happen to be technically competent which helps more than any certificate ) Quite often I work relationships for maintenance with "certified" business near the customer, and this is sometimes required if certain kinds of cabling or a contractor's license are needed to be legal. Do you have any certification other than Linux ? I'm not saying it doesn't help, just that for me at least, it isn't necessary. Business is business. Work a deal, or two. That's what counts. I've never been able to do it, but it looks like fun... Sell a solution and have someone else do the work ! Selling is the crux of working, not technical skill or certification. How do you plan to market your solutions ? Or service and maintain all the customers ? Keep them happy ? Get new customers ? Hanging out with technical folk is great, but when it comes to striking out on your own business... That's something for business people. So this is hopefully a good list for this exact topic, and I hope that I've contributed something so far and that there is more to come... If all you want to do is sell copies of Linux, maybe pre-installed on PC's, then I'm sure RedHat, Slackware, and others would be happy to sell to you at wholesale or bulk rates. You might consider gathering together books to offer along with Linux CD's, Internet access (Become your own ISP), etc., Requirements ? Just do it ! THX -AEF On Wed, 15 Jan 1997, Paul Cummings wrote: > What do you all think is the requirements are for someone, like > myself, to begin offering Linux as a product in my area. > > To add context about myself: > > I live in Scotland, and have used Linux since August 96 after a brief > attempt at using it two years earlier. I have no real business > experience, but have a Higher National Diploma in I.T. > > What would be any stumbling blocks for someone like myself? > > -- > =============== ============================================== > Paul Cummings "That's an awful lot of ships." --Ivanova > paulc@sol.co.uk "That's a bloody awful lot of ships!" --Marcus > =Linux=v2.0.27= ============================================== > From popmail Thu Jan 16 09:21:38 1997 Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 12:01:04 +1100 (EST) From: Robert Hart To: exec@prysm.net cc: Linux Business Discussion Group Subject: Re: Fiber Network (was Re: $ wc -l linux-biz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO On Wed, 15 Jan 1997, exec@prysm.net (Eric L. Green) wrote: > > You don't say exactly what sort of fibre system you are going to use - > > straight FDDI (100Mb/s), ethernet by fibre (10Mb/s), 100Tx or 100Tf. > > Well: This is for a secondary school. I am donating my labor, and we are > going to use the existing linux box as the center of the star. Fair enough. One thing you may be able to pick up is some old chipcom fibre gear. my old site used this before I tossed it and replaced the system with Bay Networks 28200 fast/switched 100Tf equipment. The centre of our fibre star was capable of handling 6 fibre links and it worked just fine. At the end of each run from the star we used fibre to AUI converters to link into ethernet hubs. The only thing to watch with this gear is that it uses an old encoding scheme that is not the same as that in use today - so you need to carefully check that the fibre to AUI converters are compatible with the Chipcom star gear. When laying the fibre, I strongly urge you to use 6 core (3 pair) cable - I realise that you will need only 1 pair for each run, but having hte spare cables is really useful come upgrade time - you will need 2 pairs if they want to upgrade to a ring and you may need a spare if a core 'goes off'... Robert Hart hartr@interweft.com.au Voice: +61 (0)3 9735 3586 http://www.interweft.com.au/ InterWeft, 35 Summit Road, Lilydale, Victoria 3140, Australia IT, data and voice networking Strategic IT business planning Internet planning, implementation, security and configuration From popmail Thu Jan 16 09:21:58 1997 Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 18:49:10 +0000 (GMT) From: "exec@prysm.net (Eric L. Green)" To: Robert Hart cc: Linux Business Discussion Group Subject: Fiber Network (was Re: $ wc -l linux-biz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO On Wed, 15 Jan 1997, Robert Hart wrote: > On Tue, 14 Jan 1997, exec@prysm.net (Eric L. Green) wrote: > > I have a client who wants fiber links between buildings on a campus, all > > hooked up in a star configuration from the central (administration) > > building. I plan on using an existing Linux box as a router to divide the > > network up. The problem: once we get to the building, I have to go from > > fiber down to 10base-T or 10base-2. (The purpose of the fiber, by the way, > > isn't speed -- it's because this fellow's had to replace thousands of > > dollars of equipment due to poor electrical grounding of his campus, and > > is tired of it). > > You don't say exactly what sort of fibre system you are going to use - > straight FDDI (100Mb/s), ethernet by fibre (10Mb/s), 100Tx or 100Tf. Well: This is for a secondary school. I am donating my labor, and we are going to use the existing linux box as the center of the star. Due to cost, it will have to be ethernet by fiber (10Mb/s). As mentioned, the reason for the fiber is because the buildings are very poorly electrically grounded and equipment keeps frying at the ends of the between-building runs. I suggested to them that they might want to invest in lots of double-ought copper wire and grounding rods (:-)), but ... I have found a number of products by Allied Telesyn that look like they'll fit the bill. But I want to make sure that that I'm on the right track... -- eric lee green exec@prysm.net From popmail Thu Jan 16 09:22:29 1997 Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 18:56:12 +0000 (GMT) From: "exec@prysm.net (Eric L. Green)" To: Allen Francom cc: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Re: $ wc -l linux-biz 213 linux-biz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO On Wed, 15 Jan 1997, Allen Francom wrote: > I've not used Linux as a router, rather things like LattisNet and AT&T > ISN... > > This is interesting. > > How exactly do you envision plugging linux into things ? 1) Put a bunch of Ethernet cards into the Linux box 2) Turn on IP-forwarding in the kernel 3) Let'er rip. (After setting up the routing tables, of course). Each Ethernet card would be connected to a fiber transciever (10baseF), with the fiber link going out to the other building. Could do it with copper, but, as mentioned, grounding problems (not to mention length of the runs) interferes. > Also, there is "single-mode" fiber which is a good thing. I don't know > if it costs a lot more, but it might give you much more flexibility > in the long run. In the long run... I suspect that they'll end up with a server in each of the buildings. The Linux box in the centre building would thus only need to route the occasional cross-building traffic (mostly EMAIL). -- Eric Lee Green exec@prysm.net From popmail Thu Jan 16 21:23:57 1997 Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 11:55:49 -0800 (PST) From: Allen Francom To: David Bonn cc: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Re: About the "Linux Market" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Hmn. In spite of all the "Nobody useses it, and nobody will use it" verbage about Linux, how come I have it, use it, develop for it, and make money at it ? And how can Linux even exist in the first place if it costs $50 million to "roll out" a new OS ? How many hundreds of thousands of Linux machines out there ? Hmn. Maybe a lot of it has to do with the nature of this guy's product and his current market ? ( For example, I have Win95 on my desktop and I would probably not buy a networking product unless I could administer it along with everything else from win95... That's why I Telnet to Linux :) He does have some good points, but I think it is a bit extreme. I see Linux surviving for quite some time, not only because of "us monks", but also because I know so many kids comming out of high-school that are doing things like running thier own BBS and MUD businesses with Linux. In not necessarily "sharp" contrast to the keynote address, I see a tenacity in Linux similar to that of Amway, Mary Kay, and, yes, the Avon Lady. I'm not sure exactly in what way Linux and these other ventures are similar, but somehow it fits. Maybe the proclaimed ideals, or something. There is a place for everything... and a season... THX -AEF From popmail Thu Jan 16 21:23:59 1997 Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 10:16:46 -0800 (PST) From: Allen Francom To: exec@prysm.net cc: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Re: $ wc -l linux-biz 213 linux-biz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO On Wed, 15 Jan 1997, exec@prysm.net (Eric L. Green) wrote: > On Wed, 15 Jan 1997, Allen Francom wrote: > > I've not used Linux as a router, rather things like LattisNet and AT&T > > ISN... > > > > This is interesting. > > > > How exactly do you envision plugging linux into things ? > > 1) Put a bunch of Ethernet cards into the Linux box > 2) Turn on IP-forwarding in the kernel > 3) Let'er rip. (After setting up the routing tables, of course). > > Each Ethernet card would be connected to a fiber transciever (10baseF), > with the fiber link going out to the other building. > > Could do it with copper, but, as mentioned, grounding problems (not to > mention length of the runs) interferes. > > > Also, there is "single-mode" fiber which is a good thing. I don't know > > if it costs a lot more, but it might give you much more flexibility > > in the long run. > > In the long run... I suspect that they'll end up with a server in each of > the buildings. The Linux box in the centre building would thus only need > to route the occasional cross-building traffic (mostly EMAIL). > Okay. That will work dandy. (I haven't done it with Linux and Fiber cards, but the basic idea is cool.) At one point I was "Interim Director of Data Processing" for Clackamas Community College. What you've described so far is similar to problems I've bumped into before. Humbly suggesting: Take a look at existing PBX service to the campus, and Audio/Video department and their existing infrastructure and future requirements. My thoughts on single-mode fiber go like this: Single-mode is, I believe, what is used in SONET rings by telephone companies and has a very high bandwidth. Such fiber could run many services at once, phone, audio video, and networking. Basically, you might be able to kill several birds with one stone, so to speak. If your computer network could use help building to building, then probably your telephone equipment and audio video stuff could do with an upgrade at the same time. Potential source of FUNding ! Here's a terrible idea, but if you don't want to go to the effort of running the fiber, and you really are going to have low-bandwidth requirements, how about dialup or PPP through your PBX, serial-wise ? THX -AEF From popmail Thu Jan 16 21:25:03 1997 Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 17:55:41 -0800 From: David Bonn To: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: About the "Linux Market" Status: RO This diatribe^h^h^h^h^h^h^h^hmessage kind of summarizes some brooding observations about the opportunities for commercial software on Linux. While I think Linux is great, I'm not that optimistic. It has a lot more to do with economics than anything else. Some background is probably important. My company, Seattle Software Labs, sells an internet firewall based on a Linux core, with client software (configuration and reports) available under Linux, Windows 95, or Windows NT. Since we made the Windows clients available, nearly all of our customers have used the Windows client. What is more disturbing to me is that nearly all of the old customers who used the Linux client are now using the Windows clients. This `conversion' is in spite of the fact that the Windows clients are slower, less stable, and less visually appealing than the Linux clients. In fact, since we use the Linux clients in-house, there is more time on them and they are less likely to be bug-free. (Technical note -- all of our clients our writting using Tk and Tix, so identical functionality is available under Linux and Windows). I find this profoundly disturbing. To my mind it implies some unpleasant truths about how people deal with software. It is hard to figure out how Linux can be generally successful in this kind of environment. My guess is that the reasons have a lot more to do with cultural issues than with technical ones. If the issues are cultural, then technical solutions (Windows emulators, more cool applications, better interoperability) won't substantially help Linux's market penetration. Lots of very good work is being done on and with Linux, but there are essential pieces missing. The media is going to view Linux as a sideshow at best, and a cult at worst, until somebody makes some serious money with it, the criteria for being a big deal in the computer industry is to be a billion-dollar deal. Big results will get people's attention -- nothing else will. It costs $20 million to $50 million US to fully capitalize and promote a desktop software product these days. Promotion and marketing costs far outstrip development costs. It is hard to justify betting this much money on Linux, especially when the Windows market is at least twenty times as large. Promotion costs don't go down substantially for smaller markets, which makes the per-unit costs higher just because the market is smaller. Unconventional marketing techniques (e.g. the Internet) can be much less expensive, but results have been mixed and Internet promotion costs are rapidly increasing. If you have both a Linux and a Windows products, no one will switch from Windows to Linux to run your products. I have compelling evidence to support this. Like I said, I like Linux a lot. There are a lot of people in the press and analyst community who think Linux is a great thing. Unfortunately, the market momentum is not on our side right now. We need to figure out how to pull a rabbit out of the hat if things are going to turn around. "The Linux community is kind of like the ancient monks, keeping the traditions alive for a new renaissance." -- James Gosling, Usenix keynote speech "I don't feel like a monk." -- David Bonn, Usenix attendee From popmail Thu Jan 16 21:25:09 1997 Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 00:19:48 -0500 (EST) From: "Joseph L. Hartmann, Jr." To: David Bonn cc: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Re: About the "Linux Market" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Your post should be required reading for anyone who has hopes for a linux used by large numbers of individuals (relative to the windows market). Thank you for your thoughts. Best Regards, Joe Hartmann Tel: (603) 863 6073 K2AJV -issued email: joeh@sugar-river.net 1951 home-page: http://www.sugar-river.net/~joeh ------------------------------------------------------------- First Student at the: Linux Academy in the Sunshine Town of Newport, NH Thanks to RMS, Linus, and other contributors of free software! ------------- I grant this to the public domain ------------- On Wed, 15 Jan 1997, David Bonn wrote: > > This diatribe^h^h^h^h^h^h^h^hmessage kind of summarizes some brooding > observations about the opportunities for commercial software on Linux. > While I think Linux is great, I'm not that optimistic. It has a lot > more to do with economics than anything else. > > Some background is probably important. My company, Seattle Software > Labs, sells an internet firewall based on a Linux core, with client > software (configuration and reports) available under Linux, Windows > 95, or Windows NT. Since we made the Windows clients available, nearly > all of our customers have used the Windows client. What is more > disturbing to me is that nearly all of the old customers who used the > Linux client are now using the Windows clients. > > This `conversion' is in spite of the fact that the Windows clients are > slower, less stable, and less visually appealing than the Linux > clients. In fact, since we use the Linux clients in-house, there is > more time on them and they are less likely to be bug-free. (Technical > note -- all of our clients our writting using Tk and Tix, so identical > functionality is available under Linux and Windows). > > I find this profoundly disturbing. To my mind it implies some > unpleasant truths about how people deal with software. It is hard to > figure out how Linux can be generally successful in this kind of > environment. My guess is that the reasons have a lot more to do with > cultural issues than with technical ones. > > If the issues are cultural, then technical solutions (Windows > emulators, more cool applications, better interoperability) won't > substantially help Linux's market penetration. Lots of very good work > is being done on and with Linux, but there are essential pieces > missing. > > The media is going to view Linux as a sideshow at best, and a cult at > worst, until somebody makes some serious money with it, the criteria > for being a big deal in the computer industry is to be a billion-dollar > deal. Big results will get people's attention -- nothing else will. > > It costs $20 million to $50 million US to fully capitalize and promote > a desktop software product these days. Promotion and marketing costs > far outstrip development costs. It is hard to justify betting this > much money on Linux, especially when the Windows market is at least > twenty times as large. Promotion costs don't go down substantially > for smaller markets, which makes the per-unit costs higher just > because the market is smaller. Unconventional marketing techniques > (e.g. the Internet) can be much less expensive, but results have been > mixed and Internet promotion costs are rapidly increasing. > > If you have both a Linux and a Windows products, no one will switch > from Windows to Linux to run your products. I have compelling > evidence to support this. > > Like I said, I like Linux a lot. There are a lot of people in the > press and analyst community who think Linux is a great thing. > Unfortunately, the market momentum is not on our side right now. We > need to figure out how to pull a rabbit out of the hat if things are > going to turn around. > > "The Linux community is kind of like the ancient monks, keeping the > traditions alive for a new renaissance." > > -- James Gosling, Usenix keynote speech > > "I don't feel like a monk." > > -- David Bonn, Usenix attendee > From popmail Thu Jan 16 21:26:26 1997 Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 22:26:02 -0800 (PST) From: Keith Dart To: David Bonn cc: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Re: About the "Linux Market" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO On Wed, 15 Jan 1997, David Bonn wrote: > This diatribe^h^h^h^h^h^h^h^hmessage kind of summarizes some brooding > observations about the opportunities for commercial software on Linux. > [stuff deleted] > I find this profoundly disturbing. To my mind it implies some > unpleasant truths about how people deal with software. It is hard to > figure out how Linux can be generally successful in this kind of > environment. My guess is that the reasons have a lot more to do with > cultural issues than with technical ones. I think this has more to do with convenience than anything else. If they already running Windows on the desktop, that's what they'll use. > If the issues are cultural, then technical solutions (Windows > emulators, more cool applications, better interoperability) won't > substantially help Linux's market penetration. Lots of very good work > is being done on and with Linux, but there are essential pieces > missing. > > The media is going to view Linux as a sideshow at best, and a cult at > worst, until somebody makes some serious money with it, the criteria > for being a big deal in the computer industry is to be a billion-dollar > deal. Big results will get people's attention -- nothing else will. I think it will be a slow process, but Linux will grow. Many (how many?) young high-school and college kids already use it, and will undoubtedly continue to use it later in life. After all, after using a rock-solid OS so long, how could anyone move to Windoze? > It costs $20 million to $50 million US to fully capitalize and promote > a desktop software product these days. Promotion and marketing costs > far outstrip development costs. It is hard to justify betting this > much money on Linux, especially when the Windows market is at least > twenty times as large. Promotion costs don't go down substantially > for smaller markets, which makes the per-unit costs higher just > because the market is smaller. Unconventional marketing techniques > (e.g. the Internet) can be much less expensive, but results have been > mixed and Internet promotion costs are rapidly increasing. Linux is definitly a "grass-roots" effort. Novell Netware didn't happen overnight, either. It was brought into business at a departmental or group level by people looking for a better way to use their PC's. (Never mind the present bungling at Novell). The PC world hasn't been the same since. I agree it's hard to compete against the 300 pound gorilla, but there will always be a market with those who know better. 8-) > If you have both a Linux and a Windows products, no one will switch > from Windows to Linux to run your products. I have compelling > evidence to support this. I would, and did. However, I agree we need more apps. > Like I said, I like Linux a lot. There are a lot of people in the > press and analyst community who think Linux is a great thing. > Unfortunately, the market momentum is not on our side right now. We > need to figure out how to pull a rabbit out of the hat if things are > going to turn around. Well, Linux use has grown quite a bit recently, in spite of all the obstacles you mention. I've even seen it at CompUSA! I think it will happen, but it may take a while. my $0.02. ============================================================================ Keith Dart, Network Systems Engineer email: kdart@ins.com International Network Services Current client: kdart@cisco.com Cisco Systems, Access Business Unit pager: +1.800.467.1467 Access DevTest/Solution Testing phone: +1.408.527.1391 fax: +1.408.527.3778 =--------------------------------------------------------------------------- Linux: the choice of a GNU generation. ============================================================================ From popmail Thu Jan 16 21:26:43 1997 Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 10:41:00 +0200 (SAT) From: Dr Evan Summers To: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Re: About the "Linux Market" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO On Wed, 15 Jan 1997, David Bonn wrote: > Unfortunately, the market momentum is not on our side right now. We > need to figure out how to pull a rabbit out of the hat if things are > going to turn around. I think that Linux has a huge future in desktop computing for the enterprisee on the one hand, and also home computing on the other, for the PC gamer. I see this GGI project, and other related projects like Berlin, as being tremendously exciting, and hugely relevant to the above comment. With GGI, Linux will be the best PC gaming platform available. Although being technically the best doesn't guarantee popularity, I have a gut feeling, Linux will become the preferred OS for serious gaming. We all know that Linux is the best platform for networking, and is doing very well here, particularly in the Internet industry. But my interest is on the commercial side, in particular "Enterprise Computing." I see Linux as having an incredibly bright future in this arena. On the server side, I see Linux clusters and distributed servers, and on the client side I see thin network computers which are in fact diskless PC's running Linux, and using GGI/Berlin, and even a Java AWT implementation for this GUI. Of course there's lots of work still to be done, and lots of time needed to convince major vendors to port/release their products under Linux, but the ball is starting to roll... But you're right, Microsoft it seems has showed that it's all about marketing, and not about technical superiority. Nonetheless in the Enterprise Computing field, it's all about solution providers, and not marketing. And more and more, we'll be seeing solution providers adopting Linux, because of its technical superiority. I have a dream TODAY! Regards Evan ---------------------------------------------------------------|-----|-- Evan Summers, PhD Tel +27 82 900-8632 Symphony /|\ /|\ Internet systems integration http://sr.co.za Research { } { } Johannesburg, South Africa mailto:evan@sr.co.za (Pty)Ltd {___} {___} From popmail Thu Jan 16 21:26:44 1997 Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 22:17:26 -0700 (MST) From: Idan Shoham To: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Re: About the "Linux Market" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Hmmm. I wonder what the objective is? Do we really want Linux to become the dominant desktop platform? I don't see any reason why Linux will shrivel or otherwise diminish in the foreseeable future. I think that the mechanics of free software and the Internet, combined with the technical strength of Linux and GNU software, and the relative technical weakness of M$ software mean that many people like the subscribers of this list will continue to use and develop it. The basic idea is that 5% of the productivity of 10,000 developers is a lot of output -- maybe as much as that of 100% of 500 full-time developers. Because of this, I think that development of Linux will continue to be very strong. So, if Linux continues to develop rapidly, and continues to be a useful, robust and economical platform for those of us who recognize it for what it is, does it really matter if the majority of users see what we do? In a competitive situation, I would think that there is some motivation to ensure that, beyond a critical mass of "respectability," it's not in our interest for EVERYONE to understand and support Linux. For instance, if you can sell a Linux-based, robust, easy to administer, high-performance firewall system for $2000, and the nearest competitor must cope with the vagaries of NT, or the expensive hardware of Solaris, then you have a distinct cost advantage.... What do you think? -- Idan Shoham, M-Tech idan@m-tech.ab.ca http://www.m-tech.ab.ca On Wed, 15 Jan 1997, David Bonn wrote: > > This diatribe^h^h^h^h^h^h^h^hmessage kind of summarizes some brooding > observations about the opportunities for commercial software on Linux. > While I think Linux is great, I'm not that optimistic. It has a lot > more to do with economics than anything else. > > Some background is probably important. My company, Seattle Software > Labs, sells an internet firewall based on a Linux core, with client > software (configuration and reports) available under Linux, Windows > 95, or Windows NT. Since we made the Windows clients available, nearly > all of our customers have used the Windows client. What is more > disturbing to me is that nearly all of the old customers who used the > Linux client are now using the Windows clients. > > This `conversion' is in spite of the fact that the Windows clients are > slower, less stable, and less visually appealing than the Linux > clients. In fact, since we use the Linux clients in-house, there is > more time on them and they are less likely to be bug-free. (Technical > note -- all of our clients our writting using Tk and Tix, so identical > functionality is available under Linux and Windows). > > I find this profoundly disturbing. To my mind it implies some > unpleasant truths about how people deal with software. It is hard to > figure out how Linux can be generally successful in this kind of > environment. My guess is that the reasons have a lot more to do with > cultural issues than with technical ones. > > If the issues are cultural, then technical solutions (Windows > emulators, more cool applications, better interoperability) won't > substantially help Linux's market penetration. Lots of very good work > is being done on and with Linux, but there are essential pieces > missing. > > The media is going to view Linux as a sideshow at best, and a cult at > worst, until somebody makes some serious money with it, the criteria > for being a big deal in the computer industry is to be a billion-dollar > deal. Big results will get people's attention -- nothing else will. > > It costs $20 million to $50 million US to fully capitalize and promote > a desktop software product these days. Promotion and marketing costs > far outstrip development costs. It is hard to justify betting this > much money on Linux, especially when the Windows market is at least > twenty times as large. Promotion costs don't go down substantially > for smaller markets, which makes the per-unit costs higher just > because the market is smaller. Unconventional marketing techniques > (e.g. the Internet) can be much less expensive, but results have been > mixed and Internet promotion costs are rapidly increasing. > > If you have both a Linux and a Windows products, no one will switch > from Windows to Linux to run your products. I have compelling > evidence to support this. > > Like I said, I like Linux a lot. There are a lot of people in the > press and analyst community who think Linux is a great thing. > Unfortunately, the market momentum is not on our side right now. We > need to figure out how to pull a rabbit out of the hat if things are > going to turn around. > > "The Linux community is kind of like the ancient monks, keeping the > traditions alive for a new renaissance." > > -- James Gosling, Usenix keynote speech > > "I don't feel like a monk." > > -- David Bonn, Usenix attendee > From popmail Thu Jan 16 21:27:26 1997 Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 08:41:19 -0500 (EST) From: "Sheldon E. Newhouse" To: David Bonn cc: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Re: About the "Linux Market" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO On Wed, 15 Jan 1997, David Bonn wrote: > Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 17:55:41 -0800 > From: David Bonn > To: linux-biz@lege.com > Subject: About the "Linux Market" > > > This diatribe^h^h^h^h^h^h^h^hmessage kind of summarizes some brooding > observations about the opportunities for commercial software on Linux. > While I think Linux is great, I'm not that optimistic. It has a lot > more to do with economics than anything else. > > Some background is probably important. My company, Seattle Software > Labs, sells an internet firewall based on a Linux core, with client > software (configuration and reports) available under Linux, Windows > 95, or Windows NT. Since we made the Windows clients available, nearly > all of our customers have used the Windows client. What is more > disturbing to me is that nearly all of the old customers who used the > Linux client are now using the Windows clients. > > This `conversion' is in spite of the fact that the Windows clients are > slower, less stable, and less visually appealing than the Linux > clients. In fact, since we use the Linux clients in-house, there is > more time on them and they are less likely to be bug-free. (Technical > note -- all of our clients our writting using Tk and Tix, so identical > functionality is available under Linux and Windows). > > I find this profoundly disturbing. To my mind it implies some > unpleasant truths about how people deal with software. It is hard to > figure out how Linux can be generally successful in this kind of > environment. My guess is that the reasons have a lot more to do with > cultural issues than with technical ones. > > If the issues are cultural, then technical solutions (Windows > emulators, more cool applications, better interoperability) won't > substantially help Linux's market penetration. Lots of very good work > is being done on and with Linux, but there are essential pieces > missing. > The media is going to view Linux as a sideshow at best, and a cult at > worst, until somebody makes some serious money with it, the criteria > for being a big deal in the computer industry is to be a billion-dollar > deal. Big results will get people's attention -- nothing else will. > > It costs $20 million to $50 million US to fully capitalize and promote > a desktop software product these days. Promotion and marketing costs > far outstrip development costs. It is hard to justify betting this > much money on Linux, especially when the Windows market is at least > twenty times as large. Promotion costs don't go down substantially > for smaller markets, which makes the per-unit costs higher just > because the market is smaller. Unconventional marketing techniques > (e.g. the Internet) can be much less expensive, but results have been > mixed and Internet promotion costs are rapidly increasing. > > If you have both a Linux and a Windows products, no one will switch > from Windows to Linux to run your products. I have compelling > evidence to support this. > > Like I said, I like Linux a lot. There are a lot of people in the > press and analyst community who think Linux is a great thing. > Unfortunately, the market momentum is not on our side right now. We > need to figure out how to pull a rabbit out of the hat if things are > going to turn around. > > "The Linux community is kind of like the ancient monks, keeping the > traditions alive for a new renaissance." I won't try to respond to this point-by-point. While I disagree with many statements in this message. It does bring up some important issues. In my opinion, there are several reasons why, given a choice at the present time, many more people will choose to use Windows products. Obviously some of these reasons are the following. 1. They are used to it and it gets their work done. 2. On an applications level (word processing, database, spreadsheet), one can expect to easily get support for installation and user techniques. 3. Any hardware produced for Intel boxes will come shipped with drivers for Windows. One can't expect Linux to fill these needs/desires at the present time. It is just too young and immature. Anyone who remembers the DOS/Windows situation of just 10 or 12 years ago will remember much worse support and usability than one would tolerate now. But, it was more or less the only game in town. And most of that game was Lotus. There was no excel. Word was just one of many possible equivalent choices for text processing, etc. But, with clever marketing and development, MS became the biggest software firm in the world. Linux has the potential to be a major player. It is too early to say how significant a player. The fact that it is even mentioned in positive terms by PC-WEEK is very significant. But there are dangers. Many products As someone on the applixware list recently said, it is much worse to market a product with little or now support than to not matsomeone on the applixware gicc-will probably not take , , we are used to for WindoIt is known that the reason The ie. help with installationsa on It It rI don't think marketing is the main onepeopleoel> > -- James Gosling, Usenix keynote speech > > "I don't feel like a monk." > > -- David Bonn, Usenix attendee > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Sheldon E. Newhouse | e-mail: sen1@math.msu.edu | | Mathematics Department | | | Michigan State University | telephone: 517-355-9684 | | E. Lansing, MI 48824-1027 USA | FAX: 517-432-1562 | --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From popmail Thu Jan 16 21:29:30 1997 Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 12:04:26 -0500 (EST) From: "Joseph L. Hartmann, Jr." To: Idan Shoham cc: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Re: About the "Linux Market" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO On Wed, 15 Jan 1997, Idan Shoham wrote: > Hmmm. I wonder what the objective is? Do we really want Linux to become > the dominant desktop platform? In a word: Yes! We want free software to take over the computer world and drive out the hoarders. Best Regards, Joe Hartmann Tel: (603) 863 6073 K2AJV -issued email: joeh@sugar-river.net 1951 home-page: http://www.sugar-river.net/~joeh ------------------------------------------------------------- First Student at the: Linux Academy in the Sunshine Town of Newport, NH Thanks to RMS, Linus, and other contributors of free software! ------------- I grant this to the public domain ------------- From popmail Thu Jan 16 21:29:42 1997 Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 18:42:30 +0200 (SAT) From: Louis Mandelstam To: Dr Evan Summers cc: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Re: $ wc -l linux-biz 213 linux-biz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO On Wed, 15 Jan 1997, Dr Evan Summers wrote: > I know of one major corporate success story (apart from 100's of little > ones in the Internet industry). > > There's a major clothing retailing chain in South Africa whose *entire* > central processing, warehouse, and each of their 150 stores (well, down > here, that's what we call a major chain), including all point-of-sales, > are running Linux. (Each store uses overnight UUCP to transfer data to > central.) Do they have any other Linux installations, incidently? Also, how does their Linux client base compare in size to other OSes? ------------------------------------------------------------------------- L.Mandelstam - System Administrator louis@sacc.org.za S A Council of Churches, PO Box 4921, Johannesburg, 2000, South Africa tel:+27-11-492-1380 x114 fax:+27-11-492-1448 mobile: +27-83-229-0712 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From popmail Thu Jan 16 21:29:50 1997 From: "Darren D. Boyd" To: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Re: GGI? Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 11:24:24 -0600 () MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Status: RO This (GGI) is new to me. Could someone please point me toward more information? Thanks, Darren > > With GGI, Linux will be the best PC gaming platform available. Although > being technically the best doesn't guarantee popularity, I have a gut > feeling, Linux will become the preferred OS for serious gaming. > ----------------------------|------------------------------ Darren Boyd | dboyd@commerce.usask.ca College of Commerce | http://www.commerce.usask.ca/ University of Saskatchewan | http://www.link.ca/~dboyd/ ----------------------------|------------------------------ Democracy is where you can say what you think, even if you don't think. From popmail Thu Jan 16 22:49:41 1997 Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 14:31:15 +0000 (GMT) From: "exec@prysm.net (Eric L. Green)" To: Allen Francom cc: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Re: $ wc -l linux-biz 213 linux-biz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO On Wed, 15 Jan 1997, Allen Francom wrote: > On Wed, 15 Jan 1997, exec@prysm.net (Eric L. Green) wrote: > > 1) Put a bunch of Ethernet cards into the Linux box > > 2) Turn on IP-forwarding in the kernel > > 3) Let'er rip. (After setting up the routing tables, of course). > > > > Each Ethernet card would be connected to a fiber transciever (10baseF), > > with the fiber link going out to the other building. > > What you've described so far is similar to problems I've bumped into > before. > > Humbly suggesting: > > Take a look at existing PBX service to the campus, and Audio/Video > department and their existing infrastructure and future requirements. 1) This is an American consolidated junior-senior high school, one of the newer ones built on the "campus plan". There is a central building with administrative offices, a junior high building, a high school building, two gym buildings, and a cafetorium building. The phone system is a standard 8-line system (8 buttons on the phone), not a full-blown PBX. 2) They don't have an audio-visual department 3) We're on VERY limited budget here (believe me, I'd prefer NOT to donate my labor, but that's not an option!). This is all coming out of repair funds to replace equipment fried by lightning. Right now, costs to replace two port servers, hubs, assorted printers, etc. fried in the last strike is around $7,000. If I can get them to spend $5,000, they'll never have to worry about that kind of damage again. Spending more than that is not an option. 4) I'd love to run 3-pair fiber, but I can't justify it to an administrator who asks "Should we spend money on capacity we won't need for several years, or should we buy textbooks for our students?". > My thoughts on single-mode fiber go like this: > > Single-mode is, I believe, what is used in SONET rings by > telephone companies and has a very high bandwidth. > > Such fiber could run many services at once, phone, audio video, > and networking. I agree with this reasoning, especially considering that their phone system was also one of the victims of the last lightning strike. Unfortunately the school district in question lacks a competent technology coordinator and thus has to rely on whatever the local expertise is. SONET rings are quite out of the realm of local talent. -- Eric Lee Green exec@prysm.net From popmail Fri Jan 17 06:02:11 1997 Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 10:38:25 +1100 (EST) From: Robert Hart To: Linux Business Discussion Group , Red Hat Subject: Linux Accounting software (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Hi people One of the things we have bemoaned in the past is an industrial strength accounting package. This was discussed on the Caldera list recently with the foloowing result. I am cross posting to Linux business and Red Hat lists for information as I am sure that there will be people interested in participating in the beta program and running the final package... Robert Hart hartr@interweft.com.au Voice: +61 (0)3 9735 3586 http://www.interweft.com.au/ InterWeft, 35 Summit Road, Lilydale, Victoria 3140, Australia IT, data and voice networking Strategic IT business planning Internet planning, implementation, security and configuration ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 16 Jan 97 13:27:11 CDT From: larsenmw@norand.com Reply-To: caldera-users@caldera.com To: caldera-users-digest@caldera.com Cc: mark@wgs.com Subject: Linux Accounting software I recently posted to this list about accounting software for Linux. I had heard of AcctOnIt from WGS, and had downloaded the beta and played with it, but it was incomplete. After seeing how many other people on the list wanted linux-native accounting software, I wrote to Mark at WGS and suggested there might be a rather lucrative market for AcctOnIt (WGS' port of a DOS accounting package). Here is the response I got from Mark: >Sorry to take so long to reply. I have been fully occupied preparing >for and putting on UseLinux for the last several weeks, and now I am >cranking through the several hundred messages a day that have piled >up while I was gone. > >Here is what I propose: > >We are going to post all ported modules of AcctOnIt to the >ftp://www.wgs.com/pub/wgs/acctonit >directory. All have been compiled with FlagShip for ELF. After the >beta time is over (Bug reports dribble to nothing), we will then >leave only the GL and System Manager posted, and sell the other >modules separately. > >The product is completely ported, and largely tested.... but still >considered early beta quality for modules other than the GL. > >If we can get bug reports, we will respond to them with fixes, and >repostings. Tech support will exist to the degree possible for real >bugs. > >If you can get at least 50 people actively involved with beta, and >more that want the final commercial version.... we will take the hold >off the product. There is no printed documentation, but it is VERY >easy to use. My wife used a prior DOS version successfully and >learned both accounting and the software at the same time....without >manuals, and we have been using successive versions of this product >for GCS' books for a over a decade now. There are well over 50K >users of the DOS version.... so errors should be restricted to the >port, and not the product itself. I checked the ftp site, and there was a larger tarball posted on the 9th. I haven't installed it yet, so I don't know if everything's there or not, but I'm going to install it tonight and will post tomorrow regarding how it goes. Mike From popmail Fri Jan 17 06:02:17 1997 Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 11:17:27 +1100 (EST) From: Robert Hart To: exec@prysm.net cc: Allen Francom , linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Re: $ wc -l linux-biz 213 linux-biz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O On Thu, 16 Jan 1997, exec@prysm.net (Eric L. Green) wrote: > 4) I'd love to run 3-pair fiber, but I can't justify it to an > administrator who asks "Should we spend money on capacity we won't need > for several years, or should we buy textbooks for our students?". I presume that they will be using 'volunteer' labour to install the cable? If so, it is probably a cheaper long term solution to install a single pair now. However, where paid staff or contractors are doing the installation, it is definitely cheaper in the long term to install 3 pair cable. The significant cost is the installation - not buying the cable. I went through this analysis some time ago and can't remember the comparative costings I'm afraid. However, given the rapid move towards multimedia, video conferencing and distribution etc within the educational field, just how many years will it be before even a high school is pushed into such high bandwidth hungry areas - my bet is within 5 years (but that is coloured possibly by experiences at a *very* remote community college type institution here in Australia). The life of a well installed fibre cable is well over 10 years (I have seen suggestions that it could be 25 to 50 years, provided it doesn't get damaged somehow). In this scenario, the lifetime cost of the 3 pair compared to single pair cable is very small. As a network manager, the one thing I am *sure* about is that the bandwidth requirements will increase beyond my capability to plan beyond 3 years (and the year three prediction is a bit shaky...). Having excess cable capacity is also necessary to cope with cable problems. What if your single pair falls over... I would suggest the school consider these issues very carefully - if they can't afford multi-pair cable, can they *really* afford to go ahead? Once it is installed and they depend on it (which they will), are they going to accept the downtime and cost of installing a new cable/repairing a damaged cable??? Sometimes, it's better NOT to do something if you can't afford to do it properly/maintain it as the implications of it failing can be pretty horrible. Someone else mentioned using direct serial PPP if the bandwidth requirements were small - don't forget you can gang together 2 serial lines using the eql system to give you 2x115.2kbps per link throughput using direct serial connects. If you set up a Linux server in each building, you caould handle quite a bit this way - using caching/proxy web servers etc - things like NFS would be a bit slow however. It depends on what they need right now. Robert Hart hartr@interweft.com.au Voice: +61 (0)3 9735 3586 http://www.interweft.com.au/ InterWeft, 35 Summit Road, Lilydale, Victoria 3140, Australia IT, data and voice networking Strategic IT business planning Internet planning, implementation, security and configuration From popmail Fri Jan 17 06:02:32 1997 From: "Hall, Barrie" To: "'linux-biz@lege.com'" Subject: RE: $ wc -l linux-biz 213 linux-biz Date: Fri, 17 Jan 97 11:01:00 PST Status: O Im a little confused here...The central issue seems to be grounding. The 10BaseT interface on a standard Ethernet card is balanced and electrically isolated from the PC. Checking the standard shows that 10BaseT transformers are rated for 1.5KV (minimum). 10BaseT Hubs have similar electrical isolation (many are powered from a plugpack supply anyway). Bearing the above in mind, the solution to the problem would be to centrally locate the Linux machine and a 10BaseT Hub and run CAT 5 cable out to each building. As long as your cable runs are less than 175m this should all work. You only need one ethernet card in your Linux system. Barrie Hall, Senior Networks/Software Engineer, NetComm Ltd, (Cable Data Group). From popmail Fri Jan 17 06:02:41 1997 Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 19:35:36 -0500 (EST) From: Mark Hamstra To: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: tried dosemu lately? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO This is just a friendly nudge to encourage all of you to try out as much DOS software as possible under dosemu. It's been a while (read: about a year) since I tried to run any significant software under it. I've got 0.64.2.1 with emumodule running with Linux-2.0.28 now, and I must say I'm very impressed with its capabilities. The last time I tried to run MicroStation for DOS under dosemu, it didn't work at all. Now I can run MicroStation v5 (although not the current MicroStation95), Modeler, MasterPiece, and TriForma --pretty much the whole schmear, though not the most recent versions. I've also got other just-for-fun stuff like Duke Nukem 3D working just fine. Why post this to linux-biz? Because even though I think native Linux ports (like those of MicroStation and MasterPiece that I have done) should be our real goal, DOS emulations of real apps make for pretty good demonstrations and trial implementations --and in the case of MicroStation, they may well be able to provide added functionality (in the form of Modeler, TriForma, and other add-ons that haven't been ported yet.) Mark Hamstra Bentley Systems, Inc. From popmail Fri Jan 17 10:03:29 1997 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rn_Elenfors?= To: "linux-biz@lege.com" , "'Darren D. Boyd'" Subject: RE: GGI? Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 08:14:47 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BC044E.819B73A0" Status: RO This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. Contact your mail administrator for information about upgrading your reader to a version that supports MIME. ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC044E.819B73A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >This (GGI) is new to me. Could someone please point me toward more information Check out http://synergy.caltech.edu/~ggi/ for more information. Alta Vista is your friend. /Bjorn > ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC044E.819B73A0-- From popmail Fri Jan 17 13:01:22 1997 Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 10:08:58 +0200 (SAT) From: Dr Evan Summers To: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Re: GGI? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O > This (GGI) is new to me. Could someone please point me toward more > information? http://synergy.caltech.edu/~ggi/ From popmail Fri Jan 17 13:01:22 1997 Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 10:06:22 +0200 (SAT) From: Dr Evan Summers To: Louis Mandelstam cc: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Re: $ wc -l linux-biz 213 linux-biz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O Dear Louis, > > There's a major clothing retailing chain in South Africa whose *entire* > > central processing, warehouse, and each of their 150 stores (well, down > > here, that's what we call a major chain), including all point-of-sales, > > are running Linux. (Each store uses overnight UUCP to transfer data to > > central.) > > Do they have any other Linux installations, incidently? No, that's the first. But not the last! > Also, how does their Linux client base compare in size to other OSes? They have another big retailing client with 1000 SCO XENIX/UNIX machines. That client would have gone Linux when they needed TCP/IP for their new VSAT network, rather than SCO TCP/IP upgrade, but they had old Chase multiports in hundreds of their stores, and Chase Research refused to give us the specs to write a driver for that multiport (which had been discontinued anyway). That's why "Chase" is a swear word 'round here... Regards Evan From popmail Fri Jan 17 13:01:36 1997 Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 10:54:05 +0200 (SAT) From: Dr Evan Summers To: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: school MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO With all this discussion about this School's proposed fibre-optic network installation, I felt compelled to add something, anything! > two port servers, hubs, assorted printers, etc. fried in the last strike > is around $7,000. If I can get them to spend $5,000, they'll never have to What about spending $7000 to replace damaged equipment, not have to worry about lightning again, and also have much improved infrastructure than before, ready for video conferencing and the 21st century?! What they saving on your labour, they could at least spend on the installation... Regards Evan From popmail Sat Jan 18 10:07:34 1997 Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 11:47:01 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Linux Business Discussion Group , Red Hat From: Scott Christley Subject: Re: Linux Accounting software (fwd) Status: RO FYI- NET-Community is in the process of writing Financial software for Linux. We are using GNUstep as the underlying OO hierarchy which will make the programs highly portable, and we are using the GNUstep Database Library which will allow us to work with just about any SQL Database (it currently supports Sybase, SQL Server, and Postgres). Our expertise is in the area of city governmental accounting, so we are especially interested in talking with people who are familiar with other accounting systems: education, non-profit, service bureaus, small business, manufacturing, holding companies, etc. Our design allows for a flexible account coding structure, so the idea is to have templates which one can use as a basis for your particular industry. It is our intention to make it free software. Scott Christley NET-Community From popmail Sat Jan 18 10:07:46 1997 Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 18:45:45 +0200 (SAT) From: Louis Mandelstam To: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: A job well done (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Way I see it, some members of this list would consider the following topical, and some not. There is no key that second group can simply press to get the following, but the first group can press their mailer's delete key and pretend I didn't violate their rights. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Louis Mandelstam (Acting in my personal capacity for a change) email: louis@lia.net mobile: +27-83-229-0712 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 09:03:07 -0500 (EST) From: Jim Nance To: linux-kernel@vger.rutgers.edu Subject: A job well done Hi all, This post is not about technical kernel development issues. Rather it is a success story that the people on this mailing list are largely responsible for, so I thought I would post it here. I work for a medium sized company that develops CAD tools for integrated circuit design. We have about 400 employees. Keep in mind that this figure includes non-technical people and people who dont even use computers. Most of the employees are in California, but I am in North Carolina so I don't know most of these 400 people. Yesterday I decided to send email to everyone in the company requesting that anyone useing Linux send me some email telling me what they were doing with it. In the 18 hours since I sent that email I have recieved 34 responses. 33 of those from people using Linux and 1 from the VP of Marketing and Corporate Product Management who requested a summary of my results because people keep asking him about Linux. I think this is astounding. I dont think I am going to have any trouble getting 7 more responses to make it to 10% of the company. I have also been impressed by the number of "higher up" people who at least know about Linux. The VP of my division (who has not sent me any mail yet) uses it, I got mail from another VP in California who told me that they were running it on one of their computers, and I got the mail from the VP I mentioned above. Who said this was just a hackers OS? Anyway, I though you all would like to know that people notice and appreciate and use your work. Thanks again, Jim From popmail Sat Jan 18 10:07:46 1997 Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 12:03:41 -0500 (EST) From: "Joseph L. Hartmann, Jr." To: Dr Evan Summers cc: Louis Mandelstam , linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Re: $ wc -l linux-biz 213 linux-biz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO What we need is a higly visible BLACK LIST of vendors that hoard their technical information. CHASE may lead the list- I vote for Microsolutions as the second on the list. Their Parallel Port Hard Drive works ONLY for DOS or Windows -- and no information is available for porters "sorry" --- Yeah -- sorry I paid them $500 bucks for the thing that now sits unusable.. Best Regards, Joe Hartmann Tel: (603) 863 6073 K2AJV -issued email: joeh@sugar-river.net 1951 home-page: http://www.sugar-river.net/~joeh ------------------------------------------------------------- First Student at the: Linux Academy in the Sunshine Town of Newport, NH Thanks to RMS, Linus, and other contributors of free software! ------------- I grant this to the public domain ------------- On Fri, 17 Jan 1997, Dr Evan Summers wrote: > Dear Louis, > > > > There's a major clothing retailing chain in South Africa whose *entire* > > > central processing, warehouse, and each of their 150 stores (well, down > > > here, that's what we call a major chain), including all point-of-sales, > > > are running Linux. (Each store uses overnight UUCP to transfer data to > > > central.) > > > > Do they have any other Linux installations, incidently? > > No, that's the first. But not the last! > > > Also, how does their Linux client base compare in size to other OSes? > > They have another big retailing client with 1000 SCO XENIX/UNIX machines. > That client would have gone Linux when they needed TCP/IP for their new > VSAT network, rather than SCO TCP/IP upgrade, but they had old Chase > multiports in hundreds of their stores, and Chase Research refused to give > us the specs to write a driver for that multiport (which had been > discontinued anyway). That's why "Chase" is a swear word 'round here... > > Regards > > Evan > > From popmail Sat Jan 18 10:10:05 1997 Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 14:01:24 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Dillon To: "Joseph L. Hartmann, Jr." cc: Dr Evan Summers , Louis Mandelstam , linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Re: $ wc -l linux-biz 213 linux-biz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO On Fri, 17 Jan 1997, Joseph L. Hartmann, Jr. wrote: > What we need is a higly visible BLACK LIST of vendors that hoard their > technical information. > > CHASE may lead the list- I vote for Microsolutions as the second on the > list. Xircom won't release any info not even under NDA. Same thing with Adaptec. Michael Dillon - Internet & ISP Consulting Memra Software Inc. - Fax: +1-250-546-3049 http://www.memra.com - E-mail: michael@memra.com From popmail Sat Jan 18 10:12:10 1997 Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 18:22:27 -0700 (MST) From: Idan Shoham To: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Re: $ wc -l linux-biz 213 linux-biz (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO I second that motion! How about adding Xircom to the list?!?!? > What we need is a higly visible BLACK LIST of vendors that hoard their > technical information. > CHASE may lead the list- I vote for Microsolutions as the second on the > list. Their Parallel Port Hard Drive works ONLY for DOS or Windows -- > and no information is available for porters "sorry" --- Yeah -- sorry I > paid them $500 bucks for the thing that now sits unusable.. > > Best Regards, > > Joe Hartmann Tel: (603) 863 6073 > K2AJV -issued email: joeh@sugar-river.net > 1951 home-page: http://www.sugar-river.net/~joeh > ------------------------------------------------------------- -- Idan From popmail Sat Jan 18 10:12:24 1997 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 11:57:02 +1100 (EST) From: Robert Hart To: Red Hat , Linux Business Discussion Group Subject: AcctOnIt (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO OOPS Having pointed everyone at this yesterdayby cross-posting an earlier message, I find that the tarball is incomplete! Sorry people... Robert Hart hartr@interweft.com.au Voice: +61 (0)3 9735 3586 http://www.interweft.com.au/ InterWeft, 35 Summit Road, Lilydale, Victoria 3140, Australia IT, data and voice networking Strategic IT business planning Internet planning, implementation, security and configuration ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 17 Jan 97 07:41:41 CDT From: larsenmw@norand.com Reply-To: caldera-users@caldera.com To: caldera-users-digest@caldera.com Subject: AcctOnIt The AcctOnIt beta tarball isn't complete yet. After posting yesterday, I got a subsequent email from WGS saying it would be complete "in just a few days". I'll monitor the download site and post again when everything's there. Mike From popmail Sat Jan 18 10:12:23 1997 Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 19:21:31 +0000 (GMT) From: "exec@prysm.net (Eric L. Green)" To: Robert Hart cc: exec@prysm.net, Allen Francom , linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Re: $ wc -l linux-biz 213 linux-biz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO On Fri, 17 Jan 1997, Robert Hart wrote: > On Thu, 16 Jan 1997, exec@prysm.net (Eric L. Green) wrote: > > 4) I'd love to run 3-pair fiber, but I can't justify it to an > > administrator who asks "Should we spend money on capacity we won't need > > for several years, or should we buy textbooks for our students?". > > I presume that they will be using 'volunteer' labour to install the > cable? If so, it is probably a cheaper long term solution to install a > single pair now. However, where paid staff or contractors are doing > the installation, it is definitely cheaper in the long term to install > 3 pair cable. The significant cost is the installation - not buying > the cable. Yes, volunteer labor to install the cable. > > However, given the rapid move towards multimedia, video conferencing > and distribution etc within the educational field, just how many years > will it be before even a high school is pushed into such high > bandwidth hungry areas - my bet is within 5 years (but that is The school in question is a school with about 800 students in a rural area of Mississippi. In Mississippi, they're lucky to have textbooks, much less high tech :-). (The only exception seems to be on the gulf coast, where the casinos have driven up property values so much that the school systems get money faster than they can figure out ways to spend it!). > Having excess cable capacity is also necessary to cope with cable > problems. What if your single pair falls over... Well, then we get our volunteer to run it again :-). (Note that Stennis Space Center is near this school, and a NASA guy is going to do the actual wiring). The administrative server is in the central hub building with the administrators. If teachers etc. can't get to the Internet due to fiber being down it'll be disappointing, but 3 day disasters are the norm in the teaching business (can you say 'ice storm'?!). > Sometimes, it's better NOT to do something if you can't afford to do > it properly/maintain it as the implications of it failing can be > pretty horrible. True. That is a widespread problem in the state of Mississippi. For example, the state has decreed that every central office will have an administrative server connected via a frame-relay network to the state department of education. Unfortunately, most districts in Mississippi assign technology to one of their instructional supervisors, most of whom are more comfortable with a Selectric. Frame relay? Isn't that the thing that blows and makes your windshield wipers stop working? :-). > If you set up a Linux server in each building, you caould handle quite > a bit this way - using caching/proxy web servers etc - things like NFS > would be a bit slow however. It depends on what they need right now. The network has to handle more than just Internet. For example, student demographic information and schedules must be maintained on a server in the central administrative cluster for future transmission to the state over the currently-under-construction frame-relay network. It would be nice for teachers to be able to post their grades and attendance via the network too, though some teachers gripe that this takes more time than the old fashioned way of scribbling absences on a slip of paper... -- Eric Lee Green Educational Administration Solutions exec@prysm.net From popmail Sat Jan 18 10:12:35 1997 From: "Geoffrey D. Bennett" Subject: Re: $ wc -l linux-biz 213 linux-biz To: michael@memra.com (Michael Dillon) Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 13:50:57 +1030 (CST) Cc: linux-biz@lege.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO Michael Dillon wrote: > Xircom won't release any info not even under NDA. That is not true on two counts. They *would* release info under NDA, but that is not appropriate for writing a free device driver. Anyway, they have changed their policy now so you can write device drivers for their stuff if you want. Nobody has rushed forward to write the drivers so the end-user situation is still the same as before, but it is not because the information is not available. This is documented in both the Ethernet-HOWTO and the PCMCIA-HOWTO. Regards, -- Geoffrey D. Bennett (geoffrey@netcraft.com.au) Computer Systems Manager, NetCraft Australia http://www.netcraft.com.au/geoffrey/ Red Hat Linux Resellers: http://www.netcraft.com.au/redhat/ From popmail Sat Jan 18 13:00:54 1997 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 10:45:51 +0100 (MET) From: Linux-Business Request To: Linux-Business Subject: http://www.reference.com/cgi-bin/pn/listarch?list=linux-biz@lege.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO - Reference.COM has begun archiving this list as of: Dec. 23. 1996 - Searchable archives for the lists are available at: http://www.reference.com/cgi-bin/pn/listarch?list=linux-biz@lege.com - If you do *NOT* want your post archived at Reference.COM, include the following line as an email header or as the first line of your message: X-No-Archive: yes -- Leif Erlingsson From popmail Sun Jan 19 07:42:09 1997 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 16:49:51 -0800 (PST) From: Dwight Johnson To: Linux-Business Subject: Great Linux Web Site MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO http://www.linuxnow.com is a great Linux Web site. If you don't already have it bookmarked, check it out. A special service maintained on this site (developed by CalTech students) is a nearly exhaustive database of downloadable Linux software including selected mirror download sites around the world. Dwight From popmail Tue Jan 21 18:47:52 1997 Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 06:59:38 -0500 From: Gary Richardson MIME-Version: 1.0 To: linux-biz@lege.com CC: redhat-list@redhat.com Subject: Accounting Software Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO To those interested, wgs has posted this file series: acctonit.tar ftp://ftp.wgs.com/pub/wgs/acctonit/ Check the WGS website for more info. I believe you must have FlagShip before you may use this (not the demo) -- Gary Richardson garich@ptd.net From popmail Sat Jan 25 07:53:57 1997 Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 15:24:18 +0200 (SAT) From: Louis Mandelstam To: linux-biz@lege.com cc: "W. Reilly Cooley" Subject: Re: Good point of Linux over Windows NT (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Forwarding to the linux-biz list. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 23:48:34 -0800 (PST) From: "W. Reilly Cooley" To: linux-kernel@vger.rutgers.edu Subject: Re: Good point of Linux over Windows NT This thread is not really too relevant to this list, but since it is here, I shall put forth my notions on the subject. If what is desirable here is attention from corporate users, then there are several strategies which may lend an air of "validity" (to the corporate bosses' eyes) to Linux: 1. "Linux Certification" Sounds dumb and trendy, but its much easier to get employment with a CNE or MCE (or whatever they call it), than to say, "Duh, I've been hacking Linux pretty seriously for the last few years." Seems like some of the commercial organizations could agree on some exams (with, of course, part of the profit from the fees going to further Linux development). 2. Benchmark comparisons in major industry periodicals. This is dangerous insofar as the validity of these magazines may be biased by "Corporate Subscriptions", but there ought to be someone other than Linux enthusiasts harping its merits. 3. A bit less fanatacism and reactionism. I recall reading in Byte many issues ago an article on Linux that compared its enthusists to Amiga enthusists, and cited that the comparable zealousness may harm corporate acceptance more than it helps. I think perhaps he is right: Which would be more appealing: a room full of CS grads yelling "Linux rocks!" or Microsoft with nice, pretty logos and a large base of usable applications? 4. More brainlessness and user-friendliness, both in use of the OS (a nicely pre-configured window manager would do) and of installation and use of applications. That is largely why people like MS Windows and why people write applications for it. This may sound heretical, but, point of fact, what do we really want? We want to be able use UN*X (preferably Linux) at work. Jobs! That's what the people want! This will only happen if we let less advanced users in on the game. Either way, we'll end up fixing neophytes' systems. Would you rather it be Windows or Linux? This is largely why Mac has managed to hold such a large percentage of market with a closed, propriety system over DOS. 5. Applications!! Applications!! That's also partly why Windows won out over OS/2 (despite the fact that OS/2 could run 16-bit Windows apps faster than Windows). This is partly also why NeXT never took off, nor did the eariler movement to market UN*X flavors for 80x86 (the price didn't help that either). Ultimately, if the OS has no applications (and ones that look good--unlike many of the stock X apps), then few will use it. We already have several big applications: Netscape, Mathematica, WordPerfect, etc. Adobe makes several products for Sun and SGI. How difficult would a port be? Another idea is support for cross-development, perhaps supporting (or translating) code from IDEs like Visual C++, Visual Basic, Borland stuff, etc. Perhaps a free implementation of the Microsoft Foundation Classes, for X/UN*X, that could be compiled with g++? I have been following up on the NeXT buy-out, reading with some interest in the attempt to merge the OSes. Sounds like a bad idea. Nevertheless, one of the commentators mentioned that an improved Mac shell would incorporate features of the NeXT OS, but drop the UN*X shell and commands. It occurred to me what a splendid thing it would be if someone developed an OS which had both a nice, user-friendly GUI, for the graphic designers and secretaries, and a good command-line interface, like a UN*X shell and commands, that's fully tweakable. Imagine--a real choice! W. Reilly Cooley ---------------------------------------------------------------- The Naked Ape Consulting 1509 NE 10th Ave., #104 Portland, OR 97232 503 287-2165 wcooley@navi.net http://www.navi.net/~wcooley A horse walks into a bar and the bartender says, "Hey, why the long face?" From popmail Sun Jan 26 14:44:19 1997 Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 00:16:12 -0700 (MST) From: Idan Shoham To: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: anecdotal references WWW site MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Hi all, Just an update for you interested parties.. There are now over 50 companies registered on the "Linux uses in business" WWW site, at http://www.m-tech.ab.ca/linux-biz. They represent quite a diverse mix of industries and some public sector uses. A summary follows. Cheers, -- Idan Shoham, M-Tech idan@m-tech.ab.ca http://www.m-tech.ab.ca Internet service companies * Deja News, Inc. * iConnect Corporation * Rogers Cable * BokNet * Sandhill Solutions * Preferred Internet, Inc. * Blue Marble Live * Telnet Canada Enterprises, Ltd. * The Reference * Internation * Seafare Access Ltd. * The Net Result System Services, Inc. * Vigilant Internet services Ltd. * WebJack.com * Websense.Net * Creanet * Dataplus * IN*KA e.V. Software developers and computer consultants * M-Tech Mercury Information Technology, Inc. * Seattle Software Labs, Inc. * ARDI -- makers of Executor Mac emulator software * Wolfram Research * Progressive Computer Concepts, Inc. * Voxar Ltd * Townsend Engineering Services, Inc. * Realtime Software Solutions, Inc. * Byte Designs Ltd. * Proven Software Inc. * Bent Media Inc. * tummy.com, ltd. Telecommunications companies * Telechamada, Chamada de Pessoas, SA * RTV Regional-TV Services GmbH * Sony WorldWide Networks The oil and gas industry * Decollement Consulting, Ltd. * Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers The publishing industry * Byte Magazine (McGraw Hill) * The Linux Journal (Specialized Systems Consultants, Inc.) * Digisoft Software Development The financial industry * INTECH The automotive industry * Debis Systemhaus CCS GmbH * Mercedes-Benz AG The healthcare sector * The Alberta Provincial Mental Health Advisory Board The military and its support industries * Science Applications International Corporation * U.S. Army Publications and Printing Command * U.S. Navy: Personnel Support Activity, San Diego Agriculture * Agdia, Inc. Sports and recreation * The Calgary Winter Club Real Estate * Wellsford Residential Property Trust Tourism * Allied Tours Vendors of Linux hardware, software, books, etc. * Apache Digital Corporation * Linux Systems Labs * Revolutionary Software, Inc. * Craftwork Solutions, Inc. * Sangoma Technologies Inc. * Numerical Algorithms Group, Inc. * All-Linux Shopping Mall * WorkGroup Solutions, Inc Educational and research institutions * Calif. Polytechnic State Univ. From popmail Wed Jan 29 00:17:57 1997 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 21:03:40 -0600 To: linux-biz@lege.com From: mark david mcCreary Subject: backup service swap ? Status: RO $ wc -l linux-biz 213 linux-biz Well, 200 people on a list about Linux business sounds real nice. Not too big. Greetings from Texas, where I am a one man ISP. With no intentions of getting any bigger. One of my problems is providing a transisition for my customers should I get run over by a truck tomorrow. Or even want to take a vacation :-) I'd like to explore the idea of some sort of co-op where I could trade backup services with other people in the same situation. So that I could maintain a high degree of reliable service. A more pressing need (he says optimistictly :-) is to get some redundancy in my network, so that I am not dependent on any one location having to be up all the time. Maybe swap boxes. I'll put up an old 486 box on my rack, and give you root access. You do the same on your rack. So if there is anybody out there that might have similiar needs, please let me know. mark mark david mcCreary Internet Tools, Inc. 4615 Post Oak Place, Suite 140 mdm@internet-tools.com Houston, Texas 77027 http://www.internet-tools.com 713.627.9600 From popmail Sat Feb 1 17:32:28 1997 Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 01:23:57 +1100 (EST) From: Robert Hart To: Linux Business Discussion Group Subject: Re: Using Linux (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO This was posted to the Red Hat list - I thought people here might be interested... Robert Hart hartr@interweft.com.au Voice: +61 (0)3 9735 3586 http://www.interweft.com.au/ InterWeft, 35 Summit Road, Lilydale, Victoria 3140, Australia IT, data and voice networking Strategic IT business planning Internet planning, implementation, security and configuration ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 20:44:15 -0500 (EST) From: Joe Klemmer Reply-To: redhat-list@redhat.com To: Red Hat List Subject: Re: Using Linux (fwd) Resent-Date: 30 Jan 1997 01:44:24 -0000 Resent-From: redhat-list@redhat.com Resent-cc: recipient list not shown: ; This was posted on a DOD Webmaster list I'm on. I thought it might be of interest to anyone wanting to promote Linux (especially RH!) to their organizations. And I figured the RH guys wouldn't mind seeing it, too. --- "It's a damn poor mind that can only think of one way to spell a word." -- Andrew Jackson ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 16:37:57 EDT From: James Lindley To: Multiple recipients of list WEBMASTERS Subject: Re: Using Linux From: CPT Robert Kulagowski Subject: Linux as WebServer/Fileserver [discussing the various merits of RedHat Linux and other OS's as a Web Server] On Tue, 28 Jan 1997, Rubin, Martin (PRC) wrote: > Good points made but I still stand by my statements. In a time ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I note in passing that RedHat LINUX is the OS being used for the Intel(TM) version of WARLORD, which has been ported to a laptop and will be "Proof of Concept/User Tested" in the near future. Since WARLORD is a major player in comms/data, especially in the intelligence arena, the government and contractors expect the use of an inexpensive, publicly-available OS backed up by hundreds of volunteer (free) programmers (along with some additional GOTS) to replace/extend the Sun Solaris-based workstation/mainframe WARLORD at a cost substantially under current configurations. These decisions should permit the wide-spread dissemination of WARLORD capabilities to many more units/G2/S2. CW3 James R. Lindley Lindley's No matter how idiot-proof 251A, USA Third you make the program, USARC DCSINT Law of the idiot is smarter Auto Intel Proc Sys Officer ADP: than you! "The Army's only ground-based aerial observer!" -- PLEASE read the Red Hat FAQ, Tips, Errata and the MAILING LIST ARCHIVES! http://www.redhat.com/RedHat-FAQ /RedHat-Errata /RedHat-Tips /mailing-lists To unsubscribe: mail redhat-list-request@redhat.com with "unsubscribe" as the Subject. From popmail Sat Feb 1 17:33:06 1997 Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 17:03:16 +0100 (MET) From: Leif Erlingsson To: Linux Business Discussion Group cc: Jan Sandred , Martin Michlmayr , Cecilia Lindemalm Subject: Positive 6 full pages Special on Linux; Linux steps in on the market MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Status: RO -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- http://www.datateknik.se/arkiv/97-02/frame48.html (though in Swedish, but *do* look at the cool photo!) The renown Swedish computer magazine Datateknik in it's latest number features a positive 6 full pages Special on Linux; Linux steps in on the market, written by Cecilia Lindemalm , freelance writer Ola Sigurdsson and Karl König Königsson (http://www.datateknik.se/arkiv/97-02/kkk.html). Click on the different articles under "SPECIAL". I am very impressed that Datateknik and Ola Sigurdsson has chosen to do this special on Linux, considering that Jan Sandred only in October wrote in E-Mail that Linux was not an alternative because there is no office applications, and Ola Sigurdsson, who himself use Linux at home, in a reply to a letter from the readers, from Martin Michlmayr I believe, wrote something to the same effect. In the above special they are doing a great job of covering Applixware etc. A very nice job. Well done Datateknik! == Leif Erlingsson http://www.lege.com +46 8 604-0995 FAX +46 8 605-2551 pgp -kvc leif@lege.com DB 47 2F B1 F8 6B E5 92 7A 97 5C C8 7E 62 CA 7C Stockholm, Sweden, Tellus, Milky Way, Gods Universe. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: latin1 iQCVAgUBMvIXxQ0882B94nEhAQHX7gP/YyQuw5/IJ3mcvByqbTQ7r/IfMrVdfgIl XxmOe9wAUsTatRJOUMDqO5EFo2WsbsYVX3IohEeoEkmrxQVeAyIhXMfDgAf7dAcI zATxm87jNUZ+F21eUSBDgqonMJxsYYLvYEX03T5i923m9fcpZS43SkbLsj2DeswK N6sVyxiRDmo= =UdFG -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Please contact for Public Key, if you don't have it. ID: 1024/7DE27121 1996/08/17 Leif Erlingsson From popmail Sat Feb 1 17:34:27 1997 Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 11:24:35 -0800 (PST) From: Dwight Johnson To: Linux-Business Subject: OpenDOS Announcement (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Status: RO ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 12:01:28 -0700 From: Nancy Pomeroy Reply-To: caldera-users@caldera.com To: caldera-users@caldera.com Subject: OpenDOS Announcement Hi Evan, Here's an advanced copy of the OpenDOS announcment that we're making on Monday. Also, were you able to get a contact name at Minolta Canada that I can use as a COL reference for the press? I need the info ASAP. Could you update me today? My number is (801) 377-7687 ext 206 Thanks! Nancy Pomeroy Caldera Inc. FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CALDERA RELEASES OPENDOS 7.01 TO THE INTERNET OpenDOS Free for Non-Commercial and Educational Use PROVO, Utah—February 3, 1997—Caldera Inc. today announced the electronic release of OpenDOS to the Internet. This release, which may be downloaded from Caldera's web site, fulfills Caldera's promise to make OpenDOS available by the end of first quarter 1997. The OpenDOS kernel source code will be made available during March. OpenDOS is the first commercial DOS technology freely available via the Internet. Caldera OpenDOS is a complete operating system supporting all DOS-based applications including Microsoft Windows (3.1 and 3.11), and networking systems that include Novell NetWare, Windows for Workgroups and LANtastic. The OpenDOS binary is based on DOS 7 technology acquired from Novell in 1996 and provides a mainstream, no-cost OS for research and education. In the future, OpenDOS will also provide a low-cost DOS integration environment for OpenLinux users. Caldera's release of the OpenDOS binary and source to the Internet allows companies and individuals to use and develop OpenDOS for future use in their own products. OpenDOS also enhances the ability of embedded systems like Network Computers, NetPCs, kiosks, etc. by allowing OEMs and VARs to use well-known technology as a base for their own solutions. "Caldera is working with the Internet community to make DOS and Linux commercial systems as open and available as possible so that end users have high-quality, low-cost choices," said Bryan Sparks, President and CEO of Caldera Inc. " Both OpenLinux and OpenDOS allow end users to extend their own networks by building on what they already have without the high cost of new software and retraining." The OpenDOS binary includes: Full-featured DOS Full Multitasking— Pentium, 486 and 386 Novell Personal NetWare (client/server)—easy peer-to-peer networking for the end user (SERVER.EXE) Leading Memory Management—DPMS and DPMI —more— Caldera Releases OpenDOS to the Internet Page 2 Stacker Disk Compression—safely and reliably doubles disk capacity NetWars—new and improved version of the popular "arcade" game Power management and ROMming OEM Benefits OpenDOS provides a complete DOS operating system for OEMs and System Integrators. It extends the familiar, single-tasking, real-mode DOS model by adding industry-leading memory management, plus a full multitasking feature set and API. The OpenDOS feature set also benefits OEMs by making embedded systems easier to design and integrate, plus the battery saving feature ensures exceptional battery life. Availability The OpenDOS binary may be downloaded from the Caldera web site by accessing the "products and solutions" link at http://www.caldera.com/. For more information on OpenDOS or other Caldera products and technologies, please call (800) 850-7779 in the US, (801) 269-7012 internationally or by E-mail at orders@caldera.com. Caldera uses its own technological and marketing resources to leverage technologies including the Linux operating system created by independent developers worldwide, and the OpenDOS product range. Visit the Caldera web site at http://www.caldera.com/. For orders and information call (800) 850-7779 in the US or +1 801 269 7012 internationally. —end— Caldera is a registered trademark; and Caldera OpenLinux, Caldera Network Desktop, Caldera Solutions CD and Caldera OpenDOS are trademarks of Caldera Inc. NetWare and Personal NetWare are registered trademarks of Novell Inc, Microsoft, Microsoft Windows, and Microsoft Windows for Workgroups are trademarks or registered trademarks of Microsoft Inc. UNIX is a registered trademark, in the United States and other countries, licensed exclusively through X/OPEN Company Limited. Netscape Communications, the Netscape Communications logo, Netscape and Netscape Navigator are trademarks of Netscape Communications Corporation. All other products, services, companies and publications are trademarks or registered trademarks of their respective owners. Press Contacts: USA: Nancy Pomeroy Europe: Jon Williams nancy.pomeroy@caldera.com jonw@caldera.com Tel: (801) 377-7687 ext. 206 Tel: (44) 1264 33600 Fax: (801) 377-8752 Fax: (44) 1264 335311 From popmail Sun Feb 2 10:46:04 1997 Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 16:57:13 +0100 (MET) From: Kris Carlier To: linux-biz@lege.com cc: carlier@iguana.be Subject: BS2000 mainframe emulation ? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Dear everyone on the list, I was wondering if anyone of you has any kind of experience with BS 2000 mainframes ? I know this ain't a painframe-list, but heck... Right now, we (at the Belgian MOD) have two physical (5 virtual) mainframes from SIEMENS. We're in the process of replacing the FEP (DUET) by a LOGICS gateway-system. This provides terminal-emulation and file transfer for clients that are IP-connected to our WAN. The client runs (DOS/Windows/OS2/Win95/NT) client software on his PC, and thus connects to one of (now) 5 SINIX servers where we run GATE and TOF processes. More specifically, we're running SINIX-Z (on x86 p5-??? w/ 48 MB RAM). One of the nice things about SINIX is that it comes with the man-command, but w/o the man-pages. For your own sake, you should buy them separately. That way, they don't take up precious HD-space. About a compiler for SINIX-Z, there's one, and it works for re-configuring your kernel, but you need a license to compile other things. I've been looking for GNU-software for sinix, but apart from the RM400-sinix, I haven't found anything. I'd sure like to see (at least one of) those gateways run linux. So what ? The software is from logics.de. I wrote them a message and got back a very friendly reply. They are willing to port their application to linux. Great ? Well, not quite... snippet from the message from Richard Retzlaff of logics... > For LOG-GATE there is one provision: > There is a version LOG-GATE on Sinix with CMX connection to BS2000 > (by SNI called CS9750). > This is a SNI Belgium product...I suppose there is no CMX for > Linux...and regarding any questions about this Gate you have to refer to > SNI Belgium. So I think I'm stuck inhere... Before I contact SNI Belgium ("can I get some info from you, because I'd like to make mgmt dump your product..."), anyone here who has some experience with this ? thx in advance, kr= \\\___/// \\ - - // ( @ @ ) +---------------oOOo-(_)-oOOo-------------+ | kris carlier - carlier@iguana.be | | Hiroshima 45, Tsjernobyl 86, Windows 95 | | Linux, the choice of a GNU gener8ion | +------------------------Oooo-------------+ oooO ( ) ( ) ) / \ ( (_/ \_) From popmail Sun Feb 2 10:47:13 1997 Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 15:41:56 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Dillon To: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Re: BS2000 mainframe emulation ? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO On Sat, 1 Feb 1997, Kris Carlier wrote: > anyone here who has some experience with this ? It might help if you explain what all this means. The only name that I recognized in your entire message was "Siemens". What is all this stuff? What does it do? Michael Dillon - Internet & ISP Consulting Memra Software Inc. - Fax: +1-250-546-3049 http://www.memra.com - E-mail: michael@memra.com From popmail Sun Feb 2 10:48:10 1997 Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 16:32:52 +1100 (EST) From: Matthew Hannigan To: linux-biz@lege.com Cc: carlier@iguana.be Subject: Re: BS2000 mainframe emulation ? Status: RO Kris Carlier writes: > [ .. stuff .. ] If I can summarise your message.. You want to replace a machine running SINIX (a port of Unix SVR4) with linux, but the only reason you can't is that it provides emulation (terminal emulation?) to a BS2000. The emulation uses a protocal called CMX, which is implemented in a product called CS9750 written by SNI (Siemens Nixdorf International, the makers of the RM400 and SINIX.) OK, I have little idea what a BS2000 is (a Burroughs?) and I do not know what CS9750 or CMX is, so my initial reaction is that you have little chance at all. My understanding of SINIX is that it is essentially SVR4 (and is the same OS as Pyramid's DC/OSx FWIW). Unfortunately the reason for it's existence is that it runs all these weird and funky German only (or Euro only?) comms protocols and emulation. My guess is that it if you are going to get anywhere with this then you are better off trying the german linux newsgroups. (de.comp.linux.something??) Good luck, I hope this helps. -- -Matt From popmail Sun Feb 2 10:48:32 1997 Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 22:45:11 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Dillon To: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Re: BS2000 mainframe emulation ? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO On Sun, 2 Feb 1997, Matthew Hannigan wrote: > My understanding of SINIX is that it is essentially SVR4 (and is Are the binaries iBCS compatible? Maybe they will run on Linux with some coaxing like a copy of the SINIX shared libraries? Michael Dillon - Internet & ISP Consulting Memra Software Inc. - Fax: +1-250-546-3049 http://www.memra.com - E-mail: michael@memra.com From popmail Mon Feb 3 08:48:35 1997 To: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Re: BS2000 mainframe emulation ? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 10:21:46 -0600 From: "Bryan C. Andregg" Status: RO -> On Sun, 2 Feb 1997, Matthew Hannigan wrote: -> -> > My understanding of SINIX is that it is essentially SVR4 (and is -> -> Are the binaries iBCS compatible? Maybe they will run on Linux with some -> coaxing like a copy of the SINIX shared libraries? -> Not if they are this close to actual SVR4 since it was never ported to Intel. Remeber that iBCS is only good for Intel compatibility and not general *NIX compatiblity. -- Bryan C. Andregg Systems/Network Administrator Internet Direct Communications (913) 841.2220 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From popmail Tue Feb 4 01:19:34 1997 Date: Mon, 3 Feb 97 16:55:17 MET From: Magnus Redin To: linux-biz@lege.com cc: reg@signum.se, board@signum.se Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Business opportunity Status: RO Hi! We have been asked by a Swedish based company to offer support on their Linux systems. They have offices in Sweden, France, USA, Hongkong, Singapore, China and Japan. They ask for telephone support during the local office hours in English and preferably with an additional knowledge in the local language. They need to keep WWW servers and misc Linux machines running. We can only provide local support in Sweden and also for France if they accept support in English. It would be nice to be able to offer a complete solution for them. Are there people and companies on this list that can join in? We would like to work together with other companies to provide them with a good solution. Regards, --Free software--I Magnus Redin I WWW http://www.signum.se/ Ibland får man I Signum Support AB I email redin@signum.se mer än vad man I Teknikringen 8 I fax +46 (0)13 214700 betalar för. I S-583 30 LINKOPING I tel +46 (0)13 214600 From popmail Tue Feb 4 01:24:46 1997 Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 21:21:03 +0100 (MET) From: Kris Carlier To: Matthew Hannigan cc: linux-biz@lege.com, carlier@iguana.be Subject: Re: BS2000 mainframe emulation ? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Matt, > You want to replace a machine running SINIX (a port of Unix (not to replace, but to add (a) linux-machine(s) to the bunch). > SVR4) with linux, but the only reason you can't is that it > provides emulation (terminal emulation?) to a BS2000. The Actually, the (6) sinix machines are fulfilling their job as gateways to a BS2000-mainframe. My aim is to make the gateway-software run on a linux-box. > emulation uses a protocal called CMX, which is implemented > in a product called CS9750 written by SNI (Siemens Nixdorf > International, the makers of the RM400 and SINIX.) The emulation is a matter of sinix-to-bs2000-over-tcpip... The machine is just a plain PC with a rather genuine NIC in it. It's only the software that's different. CMX should stand for Communication Module siniX. This seems to be a Belgian Product - though not too many people - even at SNI Belgium - are aware of it. The emulation software is called LOGICS_GATE and LOGICS_TOF (which is some user interface a la ISPF (for TSO) on the 3090 IBM-series. > OK, I have little idea what a BS2000 is (a Burroughs?) Not to be mistaken for BTOS - now CTOS or something alike. The BS2000's we have are rather big ;-) > not know what CS9750 or CMX is, so my initial reaction is that > you have little chance at all. I know ! Thx for your reply, kr= \\\___/// \\ - - // ( @ @ ) +---------------oOOo-(_)-oOOo-------------+ | kris carlier - carlier@iguana.be | | Hiroshima 45, Tsjernobyl 86, Windows 95 | | Linux, the choice of a GNU gener8ion | +------------------------Oooo-------------+ oooO ( ) ( ) ) / \ ( (_/ \_) From popmail Tue Feb 4 01:24:49 1997 Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 21:22:48 +0100 (MET) From: Kris Carlier To: Michael Dillon cc: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Re: BS2000 mainframe emulation ? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO High;-) , Michael, On Sat, 1 Feb 1997, Michael Dillon wrote: > Are the binaries iBCS compatible? Maybe they will run on Linux with some > coaxing like a copy of the SINIX shared libraries? LOGICS.DE is willing to port their software to linux if enough interest exists. I'll try to FTP some binaries and run them on my notebook - keeping you posted thx, kr= \\\___/// \\ - - // ( @ @ ) +---------------oOOo-(_)-oOOo-------------+ | kris carlier - carlier@iguana.be | | Hiroshima 45, Tsjernobyl 86, Windows 95 | | Linux, the choice of a GNU gener8ion | +------------------------Oooo-------------+ oooO ( ) ( ) ) / \ ( (_/ \_) From popmail Wed Feb 12 10:04:38 1997 Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 00:34:53 +0100 (MET) From: Leif Erlingsson To: linux-biz@lege.com cc: WGS News Subject: Linux Newsletter Volume #3 (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Shame on me -- found this in my -request mail-folder among all the many MAILER-DAEMON messages, now sending it to the list... == Leif Erlingsson http://www.lege.com +46 8 604-0995 FAX +46 8 605-2551 pgp -kvc leif@lege.com DB 47 2F B1 F8 6B E5 92 7A 97 5C C8 7E 62 CA 7C Stockholm, Sweden, Tellus, Milky Way, Gods Universe. - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 4 Feb 97 17:24:58 MST From: WGS News To: linux-biz-request@lege.com Subject: Linux Newsletter Volume #3 Linux Newsletter: Issue #3 Date: 01/30/97 Table of contents: - -Linux Trademark Dispute Update, the rest of the story - -BYTE Magazine, January Article - -Linus at Disneyland - -Report USENIX/UseLinux Show, Anaheim, Jan 6-10, 1997 GREAT SHOW!!!!! - -Get a video tape of UseLinux sessions, including Linus speaking on the "Future of the Linux Kernel" - -Linus version 2.0, it's a girl! - -Linux, InfoWorld Magazine's product (operating system) of the year! - -Red Hat Linux version 4.1 released - -New Applixware 4.3 announced, Sale & Free upgrade on existing version - -Caldera Open Linux Base shipping - -Uniforum Show, San Francisco, March 10-14, 1997 also: Volunteers needed - -SoftBank Comdex participation Spring and Fall, Linux Vendors needed. - -Wearable Computing, neat Linux Application - -DejaNews link, neat Linux site - -This month's special offers at the LinuxMall - -How to subscribe/unsubscribe to this newsletter === This is Issue #3 of the Linux newsletter. It has been fun writing it for you. We have gotten back a lot of new subscriptions in the last month. Several hundred in fact. I have also gotten a lot of positive and encouraging feedback. I very much enjoy serving the Linux Community, and the FREEDOM of choice that Linux represents. I hope to continue to live up to your expectations. -- Mark Hang on, here we go! === Linux Trademark Dispute Update, the rest of the story. As many of you know, a person by the name of William R. Della Croce, Jr. claims to own the Linux Trademark. We have made progress on this front and the petition for cancellation has been filed with the Trademark office. Della Croce followed this claim with a letter to us demanding 10% of the gross revenues of WGS, and also sent the same letter to other Linux companies. Please see http://www.linuxmall.com/announce.html for the most extensive collection of information to date on this issue. Included is more information than has ever been published anywhere else. The issue is still not completely resolved, but is now in hands of the law, which will take time. We hope that in the meantime, Della Croce chooses to voluntarily release the trademark before we get to court. If it is found by the court that Della Croce falsely claimed Linux, the court will likely choose to press criminal charges. In any case, if Della Croce would voluntarily turn over the trademark it could save everyone a lot of money, time and grief. === BYTE Magazine, January Article For those of you who did not see it, BYTE magazine had a GREAT article about Linux in the January, 1997 issue! It was very positive. === Report USENIX/UseLinux Show, Anaheim, Jan 6-10, 1997 GREAT SHOW!!!!! As many of you already know the UseLinux show just occurred a couple of weeks ago at Anaheim California, just a few blocks from Disneyland. My wife Virginia and I packed our stuff into the trusty van, and drove out from our home town of Aurora Colorado to take part in this show. On a straight through drive, we made a brief stop in Las Vegas for a buffet at the Rio, "Voted the best in Las Vegas". Then miles down the road the California Agricultural Department made us "eat or throw away" our entire week's stock of "Organically Raised" mandarin oranges before they let us pass. We couldn't bear wasting them, and they tasted good, but it *was* a bit much, eating those 40 oranges all at once, especially on top of a buffet less than an hour earlier. A few hours later we arrived at LA, and caught our first sleep. We were anticipating visiting the UCLA Linux users group along with Jon "maddog" Hall, and Linus Torvalds, on Sunday but had forgotten to take our directions to get there. I kept trying to call my contact for information (I learned the message on the answering machine by heart). We finally stopped at an electronics superstore, and used WebTV to locate some references to the user group, but got very little further info. I called the president according to the web page I located. He answered, but hadn't been connected with the group for some time. As soon as he heard that Linus was going to be there, he immediately did an Alta Vista Search for the keywords: UCLA Linux user group, found where the meeting was, and then ran out to meet Linus. I think he would looked the info up for me anyway, but to see Linus.... He still had time to get to the meeting from where he was, but Virginia & I unfortunately did not, as we were too far away. I'll be smarter next time as to how to find what I want on the 'net. Glad someone profited from it though! Monday while in Anaheim, Virginia and I had the opportunity to treat Linus Torvalds to a day at Disneyland. A picture was taken which we will be putting on our Web site shortly if anyone would care to check it out. There is a link to it from http://www.linuxmall.com/announce.html Indiana Jones was the mutually preferred ride... Did you know that each of those cars in this ride costs over $600,000 between steel, hydraulics, motors & computerization? Oh, and about the show, UseLinux (January 6-10, 1997) was great. The attendance combined with USENIX was 1444, and I was told that about 25% came specifically because of the Linux presence. UseLinux was billed as the Linux Applications Development and Deployment Conference. It featured developers and business tracks, tutorials, and invited talks. There were also presentations and case studies where we found out how things really work from speakers with real-life experience. There was also a trade show with vendor booths. UseLinux was sponsored by Linux International and the USENIX Association. For more information, visit the USENIX Web site: http://www.usenix.org I was on the organizing committee, and had been assigned 2 presentations to do; in addition, Virginia and I staffed the WGS booth in the vendor area. It was neat to actually see various people a number of times, and get to know quite a few. I renewed friendships with people I had met before or knew only by E-mail, and made some new ones as well. Some of the names you would probably recognize so I'll mention a few here. This is not intended to be an inclusive, or for that matter an organized list, just off the top of my head: Linus Torvalds, Alan Cox, John "maddog" Hall, Don Rosenberg, Michael K Johnson, Bob Young, Joel Goldberger, Erik Troan, Greg Wettstein, Fred Ven Kempen, Bruce Perens, Phil Hughes, Miguel de Icaza, Alessandro Rubini, Victor Yodaiken, Ted Tso, Heiko Eissfeldt, Bryan Sparks, Jim Thompson, the PC TV people Tom Schauer, Giles Bateman and many more. It is good to know that all the players in the Linux community are so friendly and helpful toward each other. Virginia specifically wanted me to comment on how exciting it was to meet more customers than I can list by name. After knowing them only as a voice on the phone, or someone at a remote keyboard, meeting them was a special treat. We heartily thank our faithful and loyal customers who make this newsletter, and everything we accomplish, possible. Without you we are nothing. We especially appreciate the customers that went about the show saying nice things about us to others, and even sometimes butting in, and making a sale for us at our booth. It was great. The highlight of the show for me was when Linus Torvalds' session "The future of the Linux Kernel" started. Here is how it went. Linus was assigned to talk in a fairly large room that had served other Linux presentations well. Before Linus even started the room was stuffed, and a line formed down the hall. The USENIX organizers rushed over, and just as Linus started his presentation asked him to move to the BIG room. Well, we filled it too. Linus had better attendance than the keynote by James Gosling, of Java fame! This with no promotion for his session beyond it's listing in the show guide. This session, along with several others is available on video tape. See below for more info on that. Virginia told me that the vendor area turned into a graveyard during Linus' session... vendors were asking "Where did everyone go?". There were about 8 Linux related vendors there, and about 70 vendors of other Unix related items. Some had Linux portations, or drivers, and others did not. Apparently many of the non-Linux vendors went home convinced that they needed to support this "Linux Stuff" yesterday! All the Linux sessions were pretty well attended; even the Linux sessions on Friday, after the rest of the show had pretty much shut down, had good attendance. A lot of other neat things happened at this show, and for any who did not make it there, I am sorry you could not come. It was a major success, and quite an experience. After the show, Virginia and I drove back to Colorado again. I think that the ski resorts should pay me to drive back and forth through the mountains.... EVERY time I go through there on a trip, snow hits either going one way or the other. This is true even in the summer! It was a really big snow this time coming back. The snow just kept getting deeper and the freeway got worse & worse. The road really slick & piled up by the time we got to Glenwood Springs. So, we stopped at Yampah Hot springs and visited the natural vapor caves for some relaxation. I had never been there before. I would suggest anyone traveling through on I-70 check it out. Yampah vapor caves claim to be the ONLY natural vapor caves in North America... a fabulous sauna... ==== UseLinux video tape, Future of the Linux Kernel If you would like to get a video tape of some of the UseLinux sessions, including Linus speaking on the "Future of the Linux Kernel" you can contact the http://www.linuxmall.com and order item# 00128. I had originally only intended on recording these sessions for my own use.... but so many people seeing me with a camera stopped me to ask for a copy of the tape... I felt like I had to say yes. I called to ask about duplication charges, and calculated all the other related costs in making this tape generally available. The result is a single 6 hour video tape (Recorded in Extended Play mode) for $29 plus shipping & handling. We are waiting to see how many orders we get before ordering the first batch of duplicates, so place your order, be patient and we will ship it out to you. This tape is in North American VHS format, and although it was taped with a top notch Sony video camera with image stabalizing technology, the nut behind the viewfinder didn't do the greatest job of holding it still. He forgot to bring a tripod, and sometimes things are a bit shaky. A few of the questions asked by the audience are hard to hear... but the informational content is super, and also (amazingly) relatively timeless. All presenters that appear on the tape will be sent a free copy upon request. What is on the tape: - Short intro by Virginia Lane, VP WGS - Linus Torvalds, The Future of the Linux Kernel 1.5 hours - Mark Bolzern, Linux: What it is, and Why it is significant .5 hours - Don Rosenberg, Linux and distribution channels: 1 hour Ways to enter the Commercial market - Jon "maddog" Hall, Using Linux in your business: 1.5 hours a Business Justification - Jon "maddog" Hall, Bob Young The Linux Market: 1.5 hours Who, What, Where, When and Why In the last session, Bob Young goes through his calculations of the size of the Linux market, and arrives at figures to support as many as up to Six Million users already. Figures supplied independently by some of the users of FreeBSD concur, as do my own calculations, so this number is arrived at by several completely independent calculations using different evidence. One of the things that freaked me out a bit at UseLinux was the number of people running around asking when there was going to be a port of CDE (Common Desktop Environment) when in fact WGS has been promoting and shipping X-Inside's CDE for Linux and FreeBSD for several months now. It has been announced on COLA, I emailed announcements to everyone I knew to send them to, and here I was standing in my booth handing out literature about it, I had literature set on the vendor tables outside... and people were still asking the question. Even so, we sold only a few copies of CDE there. But is CDE any good? So far every user I have installed CDE for, does NOT want to give it up. The task bar is great, as is the calendar, and some of the other features. You can see it at http://www.linuxmall.com === Linus Version 2.0 ... It's a girl Born December 5, 1996 at 6:22 AM in Helsinki Finland, Patricia Miranda Torvalds, daughter of Linus Torvalds and Tove Monni just had her naming ceremony on January 18th, 1997 at her maternal grandparents' house in Helsinki. Jon "maddog" Hall is Patricia's GodFather. If you would like to see Patricia, you can take a look at: http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/~torvalds/ Congratulations Linus & Tove! === Linux is InfoWorld's product (operating system) of the year! InfoWorld just named Red Hat 4.0 Linux, Product of the Year, and you can find the details at: http://www.infoworld.com/cgi-bin/displayNew.pl?/poy/poydos.htm If you want your very own copy of Red Hat Linux 4.0, the Linux Shopping Mall has plenty of them in stock, and at a good price too! See below under "Special Offers" for more information. This award is on a par with the Best of Comdex award bestowed on Linux Pro by BYTE Magazine about a year ago.... congratulations Red Hat, way to go Linux! === New Applixware 4.3 announced, Sale & Free upgrade on existing version Red Hat has announced that ApplixWare 4.3 will be available in March 1997, and until then the Existing ApplixWare 4.2 will sell for $199. We also have plenty of stock at the Linux Shopping mall and will be selling it at $189. It will include a free upgrade to version 4.3 as soon as it is available (price of shipping seperate). See our special offers below. Quote form the Red Hat announcement >Based on the new release of Applixware 4.3, the Applix Office Suite >for Linux will include word processor, spreadsheet, presentation >graphics, mail and HTML authoring software. The Office Suite will >sell for $199 and will include: two CDs (Applixware and Red Hat Linux >4.1), Applixware manual with documentation on Words, Spreadsheets and >Presentation Graphics, and 30 days of technical support. Applixware >4.3 will include import and export filters for most word processors >and spreadsheets, including MSWord, WordPerfect and Excel. This new >version will be available in March. > >With the release of the Applix Office Suite the Applixware family of >products for Linux will include: > > Applixware 4.3 Developer's Version $495 > Applixware 4.3 Office Suite $199 > Applixware 4.3 Student Version $79.95 > Applixware 4.3 Manual $39.95 For upgrade policy and other information check our Web Site at http://www.linuxmall.com === Red Hat Linux 4.1 released Red Hat Linux 4.1 has just been released. If you want one, then free to call us and order your "Official Red Hat Linux verson 4.1" It is Linux Shopping Mall part number# 00103, more information was not available at press time. There will be more information on our Web Site at http://www.linuxmall.com shortly. === - -Caldera Open Linux Base shipping Caldera has a new Linux out called Caldera OpenLinux Base... and this is available at the Linux Shopping Mall too! This Linux is actively working towards certification for standards such as IEEE POSIX, and X/Open XPG (UNIX System Standards). It is also the official upgrade path for Lasermoon customers. This product is a complete reinstallation, even if you own Caldera Network Desktop, not an upgrade. It is Part# 00106. OpenLinux base uses a Linux 2.0.x kernel, includes NetScape navigator and more... see http://www.linuxmall.com for more information. === UNIFORUM '97 Will you be at Uniforum 97? I will be. I would like for the Linux community to have as big an impact at Uniforum as it did at USENIX where Linux/UseLinux literally stole the show, after barely making it's presence known the prior year. UseLinux at USENIX made a lot of people take Linux seriously that had not before. We have not had enough preparation this year to make the same kind of impact at UniForum, but if we have a big enough showing.... next year could be the year... think of it: UniForum/LinuxForum... Remember the issues mentioned to me by COMDEX show management in newsletter issue#2, available at http://www.linuxmall.com/announce.html Please note that SoftBank COMDEX HAS reprinted the UniForum brochure which they are mailing out continually. It specifically mentions the Linux Technology Pavilion on page 3 (the first right hand inside page). It is presented so it stands out quite well. Thank you SoftBank COMDEX. You can register for FREE exhibits passes to UniForum and register for the conference at http://vip.uniforum97.com You can come see the latest Linux developments at the Linux Pavilion, and attend the Linux BOF. You can wander the show and tell all the vendors how important it is to them to have a Linux Port. Most vendors already have a Linux port internally, but a marketing decision is needed to make the product be released. Volunteers are needed to help Linux International staff its booth at Uniforum 97, and you can indicate interest by writing to comdex@li.org (Uniforum is a SoftBank Comdex show), and generally by your presence at the show help Linux to impact Uniforum just as UseLinux practically took over USENIX a few weeks ago. === - -SoftBank Comdex participation Spring and Fall, Linux Vendors needed. If you are a vendor of anything at all related to Linux, you will want to be part of the Linux International Pavilion at both Spring and Fall Comdex shows. Contact SoftBank Comdex at http://www.comdex.com. Bill Gates will be keynoting there at the spring show. If we can get enough draw and participation maybe we can get Linus invited as a keynoter in future years! With Linux now having 6 million estimated users worldwide in addition to getting top awards from both BYTE and InfoWorld magazines now, it should only be a matter of time. The Spring Comdex is in Atlanta, Georgia, June 2-5, 1997 The Fall Comdex is in Las Vegas Nevada, November 17-21, 1997 In the meantime, maybe we can get Softbank to list a Linux Pavilion and Linux in general on their Web pages at each show (Spring & Fall COMDEX). Maybe we can even coordinate some Linux sessions for the Fall show! It all depends on the support Linux International gets from the Linux community in terms of vendor booths and attendance. So please help us help Linux to take its rightful place in the press and in the public consciousness as the #4 operating system in the world already, and climbing fast! We will be asking for volunteers for the Linux International Pavilion & Booth about a month before each show, but you can get your message indicating interest in helping at any COMDEX show to comdex@li.org at any time. Please be sure to let us know us which show you want to help with! Let your voice be heard, help out! === The MIT Wearable Computing project Here is a neat use for Linux: http://wearables.www.media.mit.edu/projects/wearables uses solely Linux for development of their machines. The reasons are obvious (fast turn around on fixes, advanced OS, small/fast, access to code, cheap, etc.). === For those who do not yet know it, one of the largest Usenet News archives on the Internet uses Linux to run their operation. hit http://www.dejanews.com/dnabout.html and http://www.dejanews.com/dnwhy.html This amazing site uses 2 Linux machines to handle nearly instant searches on over 80 million news articles making up over 120 Gigabytes of database. === - -Did you know? Have you ever wanted to run Microsoft Office on Linux? WABI as ported to Linux by the Caldera people is the way that you can run Microsoft Office through version 4.3, and also many other 16-bit MS-Windows applications on your Linux system. Most MS-Win applications run faster on WABI/Linux than natively using MS-Windows/DOS on the same hardware! Do you want a Microsoft Office-like suite native to Linux? ApplixWare works VERY nicely. What is more, this is not some unknown package, This is the Number One GUI office suite for Unix systems specifically ported to run natively on Linux. Or would you like a very friendly desktop on your Linux system that even neophytes will love? CDE is the Common Desktop environment. I have yet to find a CDE user that will let me reinstall fvwm. CDE users love it. Programmers also get a raft of great tools including full Motif 1.2.5, Sunsoft's Tooltalk and more. - -- To keep up the Linux promotional work, money must be spent. I order to make money we sell any and all the excellent Linux items we can find, so any time you need or want a Linux related item, check us out at the Linux Shopping Mall. Remember that your purchase not only gets you a great product at a good price, but it also supports the advancement of Linux in a very significant way. About the specials... in order to get these prices you **MUST** provide the offer code WEX020 when you contact us. A Shipping & Handling charge will also be added to the price listed so that we can send it to you in a decent box that will protect the product. Offer # WEX020 Quantities in stock are limited. Prices expire Feb 28, 1997, or when current supplies run out, and this is NOT a complete list of what we carry. Item# Offer 00128 Video from UseLinux, Linus, "Future of the Linux Kernel"....... $29 Mark, Don, Maddog, Bob and more. See above for full description. 00103 Red Hat Official Linux version 4.1 with Metro-X, $49, on sale $39 00080 Red Hat Official Linux version 4.0 with Metro-X, $49, clearance $29 v4.0-InfoWorld's Operating System of the year! Includes printed Manual 00106 Caldera Open Linux Base ... Caldera the next generation........ $59 00094 Caldera WABI, run Microsoft Windows 16bit software on Linux .. $199 00099 Caldera Internet Office Suite including Word Perfect ......... $325 00098 Caldera Word Perfect & Motif bundle ........................... $225 00078 ApplixWare GUI Office Suite Professional Edition $495, on sale $189 Includes Free upgrade to version 4.3 as soon as available. 00079 ApplixWare GUI Office Suite Education Edition $79, on sale at $69 (same as Pro Ed, fax of student id or faculty id proves that you qualify) 00021 X-Inside Accelerated X-Server/Common Desktop/Motif Bundle at $249 00025 Linux Pro 4.0 6 CD Set, normally $49 on sale at ............... $39 00024 Linux Pro Plus 4.0 Six CDs and 1600 pages Normally $99........ $69 BYTE Magazine's Best of Comdex winner 00002 Linux Encyclopedia, LDP, 1600pg, 4th edition, $49 on sale ..... $39 00062 FlagShip CD containing test drives and activatable versions of FlagShip for most variants of UNIX and also Linux. Includes Linux Single user key, normally $220, sale price ... $149 The above are our featured items this month. If you wish to purchase ANY Linux related items visit http://www.linuxmall.com and browse our catalog. If you do not find what you want, please let us know. You can also email sales@wgs.com, call 800-234-7813, or 970-346-4603, or Fax 303-699-2893. Our order center operates 24 hours a day, seven days a week. === The "Linux Newsletter" is intended to keep you current with what is going on inside & outside the Linux community. We believe that "The LINUX Way" embodies the FREEDOM to choose. Our perspective is one of reporting substantial occurrences that affect acceptance of Linux. This includes significant commercial product releases. We are strongly in favor of Linux and its related products in a homogeneous network with, or as a viable alternative to, other operating systems and products. We intend not only to report on the market, but to help create it by dissemination of information and presentation of opportunities. The author is Mark Bolzern. If you want to know a more about me (many have asked), visit http://www.linuxmall.com/announce.html, read the bottom item. Back issues of the Linux Newsletter can also be found at the above URL. == If you received this newsletter direct from us via E-Mail you are already subscribed. If you received it by any other means and wish to subscribe to this FREE newsletter, send email to wgsnews@wgs.com with "SUBSCRIBE" in the subject line or first line of the body of the message. If you wish to receive a simple notification that the next issue is available on our web site, that too can be arranged... just send a message to wgsnews@wgs.com containing in the subject line of first line of the body of the message the word "NOTIFY". Your status is always that of the last message you sent - - If you wish to unsubscribe, email to wgsnews@wgs.com the original message that you received, and put "REMOVE" or "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the subject line. Returning the message you got insures that we can remove the right address from our files. Without the original address, often email forwarding will fool us, resulting in annoyance on all sides. We do check our addresses and do NOT send duplicates, nor do we fail to remove people who ask it from the list. We are NOT interested in angering people, as that is counter productive... Our objective is to serve and inform those who wish it. - -- WorkGroup Solutions, Inc. News Account wgsnews@wgs.com Find all your Linux needs at the All-Linux Shopping Mall http://www.LinuxMall.com mailto:info@wgs.com Tel: 303-699-7470 24hr Orders: 800-234-7813 or 970-346-4603 Fax: 303-699-2793 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: latin1 iQCVAgUBMwECHg0882B94nEhAQEj8wP9FRmpzyxHGwXBJBVSyexxBRQ1Yg6sNcgG 9urI1jjxW9jnXVBLM2cznnsISormo4oucOq+2rudOv+7q/z0C4/10yYGs3PaQ0rH beIJkrKJExzlONnrZCYnwjNNil5dAXRe5PzP6ECsS1tTf5FDoSUBbzgw5PZrB4YF T1zNGvlde+0= =7QPe -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Please contact for Public Key, if you don't have it. ID: 1024/7DE27121 1996/08/17 Leif Erlingsson From popmail Sat Feb 15 09:37:43 1997 Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 00:14:20 +0100 (MET) From: Yes_or_No-Votes To: Linux-Business Subject: ** Reply to or ** MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- ** REPLY REQUESTED ** Hi all, linux-biz now has 227 members. Many new. This list was born Oct '96, and was quite lively until Dec '96. Then something happened. Don't know what. But we are still getting new members, so the subject is not dead. In the beginning, when the list was first started, ``everybody'' introduced themselves. That was very nice, and generated a lot of interesting contacts and ideas. I would like to try to do something similar, what I have in mind is preparing a post consisting of a few lines for each member of the list who have posted in the past, with name, company, email etc, from an earlier presentation or .sig or from lines you send in to ** REPLY EITHER TO ** ``I Vote Yes ''. Also, feel free to send in presentations of yourself directly to the list, both you who have done so in the past and those of you who are new on the list! If you absolutely do not want me to include your name and data in the summary of past posters on the list, THEN *INSTEAD* MAIL TO... ** OR ELSE REPLY TO ** ``I Vote No ''. In the first days of the history of this list, I wrote these lines.... ========================================================================== Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 22:05:29 +0100 (MET) From: Leif Erlingsson To: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Welcome 29 new subscribers! Now 41 total. Among the people subscribing, I've recognised companies like Signum Support of Sweden (Linux support), Qualcomm, Mentor Graphics Corp. and PC Online, to name a few. You are all very welcome. It is my desire -- and yours, I trust -- that this little but growing group of Entrepreneurial Engineers inside or outside of larger companies and organizations will be able to "meet" and exchange powerful ideas and share Entrepreneurial Engineering experiences, ideas and make fruit-bearing contacts across the continents. This very list is an example of such a fruit-bearing contacts across the continents! I run the list from Stockholm, Sweden, but it is run off a computer in Houston, Texas that I have helped set up for the owner... ... over the Internet, from my home Linux system, with the powerful tools that gives me. Mark, the owner of the computer in Houston, and I have not even ever met in the flesh! It is my hope that the list will further more of that kind of contacts among it's subscribers! She's all Yours, people! Let's start really using this channel for what it's intended for! ... 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, Go! PS: Anyone want a copy of the most interesting mails already posted? ... contact me for a tar.gz archive of the complete list, including the thread that became the list from redhat-list. ========================================================================== Just because the original members of the list may already have achieved the above -- or I don't know how to interpret the silence -- that is no reason why the other 180+ of you cannot do the same, so start posting and stop lurking! In the beginning a lot of people unsubscribed because the volume was too high, can you believe it?! Since then, several new lists have been born off this one, maybe there's where the action went? If I see no significant posting on the list in the next two months, I just might decide it's not worth my while to keep running it.... == Leif Erlingsson http://www.lege.com +46 8 604-0995 FAX +46 8 605-2551 pgp -kvc leif@lege.com DB 47 2F B1 F8 6B E5 92 7A 97 5C C8 7E 62 CA 7C Stockholm, Sweden, Tellus, Milky Way, Gods Universe. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: latin1 iQCVAgUBMwTxzQ0882B94nEhAQEZ9AQAq3ecUGE+oflxCCh9vXoxud8MNYF9t5KE 1hT21jP0dqaOOBgjevVz3/TY25rmhS0a6urn33KFdBEOcCaLYf8IjRyqQbEcJ820 LQEGQnCbhA14Q2+RLVVn6vz7764Z47JL+y+8D+E/rIHG72qO1IQm8fUlCt+o+yi0 i1SpaYkd+90= =1eOF -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Please contact for Public Key, if you don't have it. ID: 1024/7DE27121 1996/08/17 Leif Erlingsson From popmail Sat Feb 15 09:39:57 1997 Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 20:05:44 -0800 From: "W. Reilly Cooley" To: I.Vote.Yes@lege.com CC: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Re: ** Reply to or ** Status: RO Greetings all! I vote yes! Wil ------------------------------------------------------------- W. Reilly Cooley The Naked Ape Consulting 1509 NE 10th Ave., #104 Portland, OR 97232 503 287-2165 wcooley@navi.net http://www.navi.net/~wcooley As a service, I provide analysis for viruses and poor grammar to senders of unsolicited commercial e-mail at a rate of US$250 per hour. Delivery of said correspondence constitutes a request for the aforementioned services at said price. From popmail Sat Feb 15 09:40:13 1997 Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 20:29:36 -0800 From: "W. Reilly Cooley" To: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Re: ** Reply to or ** Status: RO Greetings all! I have an idea which I would like to put on the table, so that I may get the opinions of others more knowledgable than me, and to seek advice as to how to commence my project. Actually, I have two ideas. My first idea is to build inexpensive intra-net servers using "obsolete" hardware (yet definitely high-quality) and Linux. I have 486-66 or P-66 processors in mind, with, of course, a PCI bus. Fast bus on an otherwise minimal system. (Query: Does a PCI bus on a 486-66 run at 33MHz? Is Bus-Mastering supported?) It would have a Web (Apache), News (INN?), and SMB (Samba) server. Mail _definitely_ excluded, news is only a perhaps. I want to produce something that I can teach someone to use quickly, requiring little maintenance. I believe that if I can sell them <= $1000, I can turn a profit. My targeted market is larger companies, which have definite needs for inter-departmental communication, but have little other than mail, and perhaps a centralized web server. Ideally, there would be a Web site for every department, with a central directory on a main server. NetBIOS, I have discovered, makes name resolution on small networks very simple. My second idea is a clone() of the previous: A similar system, but also including firewalling/IP masquerading/DNS caching (no actual look-up, see the NAG) facilities (the latter especially), to permit a small office (say, <= 20 people) Internet access on demand. The demand dialing is something I have yet to work out. Same price range. How viable are these ideas? Thanks, Wil ------------------------------------------------------------- W. Reilly Cooley The Naked Ape Consulting 1509 NE 10th Ave., #104 Portland, OR 97232 503 287-2165 wcooley@navi.net http://www.navi.net/~wcooley As a service, I provide analysis for viruses and poor grammar to senders of unsolicited commercial e-mail at a rate of US$250 per hour. Delivery of said correspondence constitutes a request for the aforementioned services at said price. From popmail Sat Feb 15 18:02:06 1997 Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 10:45:27 -0500 (EST) From: "Juan A. Pons" Subject: Re: ** Reply to or ** To: "W. Reilly Cooley" Cc: linux-biz@lege.com MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Status: RO On Fri, 14 Feb 1997, W. Reilly Cooley wrote: > > Greetings all! > > I have an idea which I would like to put on the table, so that I may > get the opinions of others more knowledgable than me, and to seek > advice as to how to commence my project. > > Actually, I have two ideas. > My second idea is a clone() of the previous: A similar system, but > also including firewalling/IP masquerading/DNS caching (no actual > look-up, see the NAG) facilities (the latter especially), to permit a > small office (say, <= 20 people) Internet access on demand. The > demand dialing is something I have yet to work out. Same price range. > > How viable are these ideas? I ahve suceesfully implemented your second idea, for even larger networks, about 270 internal nodes and an ISDN connection at 128K. Works great (have not had any problems in months) and custumers always comment on how fast the connection is! -J +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Juan A. Pons E-mail: jpons@iacnet.com | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Manager, Systems Development Phone : (617) 393-3394 | | Information Access Center \\\ Fax : (617) 393-3211 | | http://www.iacenter.com (. .) | +------------------------------o00-(_)-00o------------------------------+ From popmail Sat Feb 15 20:38:26 1997 Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 13:15:02 -0500 (EST) From: "Daniel B. Harter" To: Yes_or_No-Votes cc: Linux-Business Subject: Re: ** Reply to or ** MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO > In the beginning, when the list was first started, ``everybody'' > introduced themselves. That was very nice, and generated a lot of > interesting contacts and ideas. I didn't. I suppose I should. I am Daniel Harter. My experience with Linux started around Christmas 1994 (when I got my 1.0 GB Hard Drive for only $500 :-). I was certainly enthusiastic. I had some small problems, but finally got it working on a AMD386SX40 with 4MB RAM! I have upgraded to 16MB only just recently, and have a 486 Motherboard waiting to install. In April 1995 I took an opportunity to work for CITI to set up an ISP on Linux. After the initial installation, I had the opportunity to work on some Defense Contracts CITI has. There I set up a machine to act as a mail/file server in a Test Lab. Although it was lightly used, it served a political need that the Lab have a UNIX Server. After a couple of other jobs, I am now working for MITRE on a project integrating JAVA and CORBA, in addition to setting up a Lotus Domino Network. I am very interested in seting up a Linux Server that might support IIOP. (For more information on CORBA, see http://www.omg.org/) I am looking foward to the Netscape Fast Track Server, and eventually Enterprise Server, on Linux. Enterprise will have a IIOP complient ORB included. Recently I received a P6-200 for my desktop and plan to run a dual boot NT Workstation/RedHat Server. I may decide to go with Caldera Open Linux if that's the only supported Netscape platform. But we'll see. I plan to go to the Linux Expo in April, if my Travel Request goes through. Regards, Daniel Harter (Speaking for myself, any mistakes are mine) ======================================================================= Daniel B. Harter harterd@mitre.org | dharter@harter.pg.md.us The MITRE Corporation (Dept. G055) Open & Client Server Systems Center 1820 Dolley Madison Blvd, MS W432, McLean, VA 22102-3481 (703) 883-5541 FAX: (703) 883-3315 ======================================================================= From popmail Sun Feb 16 02:14:38 1997 Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 11:32:52 -0800 From: "W. Reilly Cooley" To: jpons@iacnet.com CC: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Re: ** Reply to or ** Status: RO Where you using the level of hardware that I described? How much memory do you recommend? I am also curious about maintence. How much is required? Were you able to teach someone at the site to do it, or do you have service contracts? I am concerned because I believe that many potential customers would have in place Wintel networks, and thus have no one familiar with or interested in UNIX. Thanks, Wil -- ------------------------------------------------------------- W. Reilly Cooley The Naked Ape Consulting 1509 NE 10th Ave., #104 Portland, OR 97232 503 287-2165 wcooley@navi.net http://www.navi.net/~wcooley As a service, I provide analysis for viruses and poor grammar to senders of unsolicited commercial e-mail at a rate of US$250 per hour. Delivery of said correspondence constitutes a request for the aforementioned services at said price. From popmail Sun Feb 16 02:15:08 1997 Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 14:35:58 -0700 (MST) From: Idan Shoham To: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Re: ** Reply to or ** MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO > Where you using the level of hardware that I described? How much > memory do you recommend? > > I am also curious about maintence. How much is required? Were you > able to teach someone at the site to do it, or do you have service > contracts? I am concerned because I believe that many potential > customers would have in place Wintel networks, and thus have no one > familiar with or interested in UNIX. I have some experience with installing Linux file servers at shops where there is _no_ local computing expertise. I've found that by allowing them to telnet into the server, and setting up a special account whose login shell is a simple menu program, they can easily manage: - user IDs - print queues - specialized processing (e.g., database reindexing, duplication) - backups and restores - fax spooling If you figure out (together with your client) exactly what routine administration tasks they'll need, and put them into a nice simple menu, then they ought to be able to administer their Linux system with little or no intervention on your part. Being able to support them remotely when they occasionally _do_ require help is nice too, for all involved. Regards, -- Idan Shoham, M-Tech idan@m-tech.ab.ca http://www.m-tech.ab.ca From popmail Sun Feb 16 18:02:02 1997 Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 16:06:47 +0100 (MET) From: Kristof Van Damme To: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: databases on linux MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Hi, I don't know that much about databases (well, nothing actually), but a friend of mine (who knows about databases, but not that much about linux) needs to setup a linux box, running a webserver (will be apache) with a database connected to that. As far as I know the big ones (Oracle, Informix,...) haven't seen the light yet, so I'm looking for an alternative. The database package can be commercial or non-commercial, as long as it works. The size of the database will be about 10.000 records (20.000 at most). Maybe one of you can give me some hints. I heard about Postgres. Would that be a good choice? Greetings and thanks, Aeneas ---------------------------------------------------------------------- |Kristof Van Damme The Reference NV | |System Administrator http://www.reference.be | |e-mail: aeneas@reference.be Onderstraat 36 | |voice: +32 9 2340536 9000 Gent | |fax: +32 9 2340537 Belgium | |- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - | | On windows, I always felt limited by the software available. | | On unix, I am limited only by my knowledge. | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From popmail Sun Feb 16 21:01:59 1997 Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 01:48:31 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Morrison To: Kristof Van Damme cc: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Re: databases on linux MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO On Sun, 16 Feb 1997, Kristof Van Damme wrote: > Hi, > > I don't know that much about databases (well, nothing actually), but a > friend of mine (who knows about databases, but not that much about linux) > needs to setup a linux box, running a webserver (will be apache) with a > database connected to that. As far as I know the big ones (Oracle, > Informix,...) haven't seen the light yet, so I'm looking for an > alternative. The database package can be commercial or non-commercial, as > long as it works. There is a commercial one called Empress. It has some front end stuff for web servers. It's supposed to work well with 'blobs' (binary large objects). Contact sales@empress.com. From popmail Sun Feb 16 21:01:59 1997 Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 20:21:23 +0200 (SAT) From: Dr Evan Summers To: Kristof Van Damme cc: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Re: databases on linux MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Dear Kristof, > (20.000 at most). Maybe one of you can give me some hints. I heard about > Postgres. Would that be a good choice? Yes, Postgres is solid. But maybe miniSQL would best suit your application. There's also diamondbase, metalbase, and quite a few others. (Look in RedHat contrib/ mirrors.) There is also the commercial "JustLogic SQL" database. Regards Evan ---------------------------------------------------------------|-----|-- Evan Summers, PhD Tel +27 82 900-8632 Symphony /|\ /|\ Internet systems integration http://sr.co.za Research { } { } Johannesburg, South Africa mailto:evan@sr.co.za (Pty)Ltd {___} {___} From popmail Mon Feb 17 13:51:45 1997 Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 20:41:23 -0300 (EST) From: benfati@uninet.com.br (Jose Carlos Benfati) To: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Forw: FREE SOLID Desktop for Linux Status: RO I have worked with this database before, but only for a small test suite, and it seemed very good and appropriate to a Web server. Please tell us your experiences with this and other databases for Linux. This is certainly a very interesting subject to be discussed on this list. ---- Forwarded message follows----- > From iko.rein@solidtech.com Fri Feb 14 15:14:01 1997 > Received: from gw.solid.fi (gw.solid.fi [193.65.201.1]) by srv1-sao.sao.nutecnet.com.br (8.6.8.1/SCA-6.6) with ESMTP > id PAA06415 for ; Fri, 14 Feb 1997 15:13:32 -0300 > Return-Path: > Received: (from news@localhost) by gw.solid.fi (8.6.12/8.6.10) id SAA19043; Fri, 14 Feb 1997 18:54:21 +0200 > Received: from hpux.solid.fi(192.168.1.10) by gw.solid.fi via smap (V1.3) > id smas18955; Fri Feb 14 18:52:39 1997 > Received: from cmpq11.solid.fi (cmpq11.solid.fi [192.168.1.199]) by solidtech.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id RAA07012; Fri, 14 Feb 1997 17:46:03 +0200 > Message-Id: <199702141546.RAA07012@solidtech.com> > Comments: Authenticated sender is > From: "Iko Rein" > Organization: Solid Information Technology Ltd > To: Downloaders.of.SOLID.Server.for.Linux@solidtech.com > Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 17:44:38 +0200 > X-Distribution: Bulk > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > Subject: FREE SOLID Desktop for Linux > Reply-to: iko.rein@solidtech.com > Priority: normal > X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.50) > X-UIDL: 6283b2738d72ef671ed4928509f4cd31 > Status: RO > X-Status: > > > Dear SOLID Webvisitor, > > You have evaluated SOLID Server for Linux. > > Solid Information Technology Ltd develops and markets SOLID Server - > one of the most compact and care-free database engines in the > marketplace. See http://www.solidtech.com > > ********************************************************************* > We are going to give out free single user version of > SOLID Server for Linux. > ********************************************************************* > > Would you be interested in providing this software at your web site > for your visitors to download? This would help you in attracting new > visitors to your web site, and keep old visitors coming back. > > There would be no money involved in this - the software is free to > anybody who wishes to download it. In return for scratching our back > in this way, you will receive from us a free SOLID Web Engine > license to be used as a back-end database for your web site. > > The package will be 4 files totalling 4 MB. > > The campaign will start in mid-March. We will select a limited > number of web sites that may provide this service. > > If you are interested please let us (mailto:iko.rein@solidtech.com) > know , and please feel free to forward this message to user groups > or anybody you think should know about this opportunity. > > Kind Regards, > Solid Information Technology LTD > > Iko Rein > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Iko Rein > Solid Information Technology Ltd > Huovitie 3, FIN-00400 Helsinki, Finland > Tel +358 9 477 4730 > Mobile +358 40 5519 358 Fax +358 9 577 242 > mailto:iko.rein@solidtech.com > http://www.solidtech.com > From popmail Mon Feb 17 13:51:54 1997 Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 16:40:14 -0700 (MST) From: Idan Shoham To: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: databases on linux (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO I use CodeBase, which is a library of C functions used to access dBASE/Clipper/FoxPro compatible data files. It's very good, and costs about $600 Canadian ($400 US or so). For something simple, you might consider DBM or GDBM accessed through Perl. You can also get FlagShip, which is a Clipper clone that runs on Unices, including Linux. Anybody else have DB experience with Linux? -- Idan Shoham, M-Tech idan@m-tech.ab.ca http://www.m-tech.ab.ca ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 16:06:47 +0100 (MET) From: Kristof Van Damme To: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: databases on linux Hi, I don't know that much about databases (well, nothing actually), but a friend of mine (who knows about databases, but not that much about linux) needs to setup a linux box, running a webserver (will be apache) with a database connected to that. As far as I know the big ones (Oracle, Informix,...) haven't seen the light yet, so I'm looking for an alternative. The database package can be commercial or non-commercial, as long as it works. The size of the database will be about 10.000 records (20.000 at most). Maybe one of you can give me some hints. I heard about Postgres. Would that be a good choice? Greetings and thanks, Aeneas ---------------------------------------------------------------------- |Kristof Van Damme The Reference NV | |System Administrator http://www.reference.be | |e-mail: aeneas@reference.be Onderstraat 36 | |voice: +32 9 2340536 9000 Gent | |fax: +32 9 2340537 Belgium | |- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - | | On windows, I always felt limited by the software available. | | On unix, I am limited only by my knowledge. | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From popmail Mon Feb 17 13:53:17 1997 Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 19:12:34 -0800 From: "W. Reilly Cooley" To: benfati@uninet.com.br CC: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Re: Forw: FREE SOLID Desktop for Linux Status: RO # > Dear SOLID Webvisitor, # > # > You have evaluated SOLID Server for Linux. # > # > Solid Information Technology Ltd develops and markets SOLID Server - # > one of the most compact and care-free database engines in the ^^^^^^^^^ I am glad to see that it's a happy database engine. :-) # > marketplace. See http://www.solidtech.com ------------------------------------------------------------- W. Reilly Cooley The Naked Ape Consulting 1509 NE 10th Ave., #104 Portland, OR 97232 503 287-2165 wcooley@navi.net http://www.navi.net/~wcooley As a service, I provide analysis for viruses and poor grammar to senders of unsolicited commercial e-mail at a rate of US$250 per hour. Delivery of said correspondence constitutes a request for the aforementioned services at said price. From popmail Mon Feb 17 13:55:03 1997 Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 08:13:29 +0200 (SAT) From: Daniel Chalef To: Idan Shoham cc: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Re: databases on linux (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO > You can also get FlagShip, which is a Clipper clone that runs on Unices, > including Linux. > > Anybody else have DB experience with Linux? I may have asked it on this list already, but has anybody had any experience with integrating Linux and Microsoft SQLServer 6.5 running under NT 4.0? We have Visigenic C Drivers for Solaris which do the job, but as yet nothing appears to exist for Perl under Linux. Cheers Daniel -- Daniel Chalef daniel@uunet.co.za UUNET Internet Africa Operations +27 21 6896242 x2231 finger danielc@speedy.iafrica.com for pgp key From popmail Tue Feb 18 07:10:58 1997 Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 16:19:15 GMT From: "Eric L. Green" To: aeneas@reference.be CC: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Re: databases on linux Status: RO http://www.empress.com http://www.faircom.com The former is a heavy duty Unix-centric package. The latter is great for embedded applications that need to do a lot of file management but that don't need hefty runtime fees and such. People have differing opinions about Just Logic's stuff. Some say it's full of bugs, other say it's no great thing but suffices for the same sorts of jobs as the Faircom stuff. -- Eric Lee Green exec@prysm.net Executive Consultants Systems Specialist Educational Administration Solutions From popmail Tue Feb 18 19:01:34 1997 Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 10:54:14 -0500 (EST) From: "Juan A. Pons" Subject: Re: databases on linux To: Kristof Van Damme Cc: linux-biz@lege.com MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Status: RO You might want ot take a look at mSQL. It's very cheap and works incredibly well. Go to http://www.hughes.com.au Also you might want ot use it with PHP/FI, a wonderful html embedded scripting language!!! http://www.vex.net/php -J On Sun, 16 Feb 1997, Kristof Van Damme wrote: > Hi, > > I don't know that much about databases (well, nothing actually), but a > friend of mine (who knows about databases, but not that much about linux) > needs to setup a linux box, running a webserver (will be apache) with a > database connected to that. As far as I know the big ones (Oracle, > Informix,...) haven't seen the light yet, so I'm looking for an > alternative. The database package can be commercial or non-commercial, as > long as it works. The size of the database will be about 10.000 records > (20.000 at most). Maybe one of you can give me some hints. I heard about > Postgres. Would that be a good choice? > > Greetings and thanks, > +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Juan A. Pons E-mail: jpons@iacnet.com | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Manager, Systems Development Phone : (617) 393-3394 | | Information Access Center \\\ Fax : (617) 393-3211 | | http://www.iacenter.com (. .) | +------------------------------o00-(_)-00o------------------------------+ From popmail Tue Feb 18 23:03:00 1997 Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 14:36:48 -0300 (EST) From: Jose Carlos Benfati To: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Re: databases on linux MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Last time I looked at mSQL it did not have transaction control. Apart from that it was very good. I tested it against SOLID webserver and INformix 7.2 to serve a web server and it was aprox. 2 times faster than SOLID and 4 times INFORMIX. That was certainly because the web performance is bound by the startup time for the client process, and since the client mSQL library is very small, the client process went up running fast. The server was not *that* stable, and the installation script for the Debian package I used was sitting in a loop waiting for the server to crash and then started it again... On Tue, 18 Feb 1997, Juan A. Pons wrote: > > You might want ot take a look at mSQL. It's very cheap and works > incredibly well. Go to http://www.hughes.com.au > > Also you might want ot use it with PHP/FI, a wonderful html embedded > scripting language!!! http://www.vex.net/php > > -J > > On Sun, 16 Feb 1997, Kristof Van Damme wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > I don't know that much about databases (well, nothing actually), but a > > friend of mine (who knows about databases, but not that much about linux) > > needs to setup a linux box, running a webserver (will be apache) with a > > database connected to that. As far as I know the big ones (Oracle, > > Informix,...) haven't seen the light yet, so I'm looking for an > > alternative. The database package can be commercial or non-commercial, as > > long as it works. The size of the database will be about 10.000 records > > (20.000 at most). Maybe one of you can give me some hints. I heard about > > Postgres. Would that be a good choice? > > > > Greetings and thanks, > > > > > +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ > | Juan A. Pons E-mail: jpons@iacnet.com | > +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ > | Manager, Systems Development Phone : (617) 393-3394 | > | Information Access Center \\\ Fax : (617) 393-3211 | > | http://www.iacenter.com (. .) | > +------------------------------o00-(_)-00o------------------------------+ > > > From popmail Tue Feb 18 23:04:32 1997 Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 13:33:40 -0500 (EST) From: "Juan A. Pons" Subject: Re: databases on linux To: Jose Carlos Benfati Cc: linux-biz@lege.com MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Status: RO Version 2.0 is in the late beta stages, I however don't know if it does in fact have transaction control. But as outlined in this message it is very fast. Call me a skeptic, but I am always leery(sp) of installing software such as this from a package, I rather do it from the sources themselves, I have found many packeages for RedHat (don't know about Debian) that have been built by people with the best intentions but never-the-less did not do a complete job. I have had a mSQL server working w/o a single problem for over 5 months now, granted it does not an incredibly high load, but I have found it to be very stable. Just my $0.02 worth! -J On Tue, 18 Feb 1997, Jose Carlos Benfati wrote: > Last time I looked at mSQL it did not have transaction control. Apart from > that it was very good. I tested it against SOLID webserver and INformix > 7.2 to serve a web server and it was aprox. 2 times faster than SOLID and > 4 times INFORMIX. > > That was certainly because the web performance is bound by the startup > time for the client process, and since the client mSQL library is very > small, the client process went up running fast. > > The server was not *that* stable, and the installation script for the > Debian package I used was sitting in a loop waiting for the server to > crash and then started it again... +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Juan A. Pons E-mail: jpons@iacnet.com | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Manager, Systems Development Phone : (617) 393-3394 | | Information Access Center \\\ Fax : (617) 393-3211 | | http://www.iacenter.com (. .) | +------------------------------o00-(_)-00o------------------------------+ From popmail Tue Feb 18 23:04:56 1997 Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 14:29:28 -0500 (EST) From: Elliot Lee To: Jose Carlos Benfati cc: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Re: databases on linux MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO On Tue, 18 Feb 1997, Jose Carlos Benfati wrote: > Last time I looked at mSQL it did not have transaction control. Apart from > that it was very good. I tested it against SOLID webserver and INformix > 7.2 to serve a web server and it was aprox. 2 times faster than SOLID and > 4 times INFORMIX. > > That was certainly because the web performance is bound by the startup > time for the client process, and since the client mSQL library is very > small, the client process went up running fast. > > The server was not *that* stable, and the installation script for the > Debian package I used was sitting in a loop waiting for the server to > crash and then started it again... www.redhat.com uses mSQL 1.0.16. It is stable if you hand it simple (one table) queries, but in a large database with thousands of records, a multi-table join will lock up the database server for a long time. mSQL 2.0 is coming out sometime (betas are currently available) and it looks like it will add the features people want... -- Elliot Lee http://www.redhat.com/ http://www.linuxexpo.org/ From popmail Tue Feb 18 23:05:08 1997 Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 11:52:13 -0800 (PST) From: Allen Francom To: Dwight Johnson cc: Linux-Business Subject: Re: databases on linux MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Transaction Control is very very very similar to a Pascal Statement like BEGIN (do stuff) END If anything in the "transaction block" fails, then the transaction is "rolled-back" and nothing in the block is "committed". A good example would be posting an Invoice. There would be perhaps a master-slave relationship between the invoice table and the "line-items" table. When saving a new invoice, "Don't tell me you saved it unless you saved all of it." There. Often, SQL servers allow you to put RULES on tables, fields, etc., so that it is quite possible for something to fail deep within a tangled mess of relationships. ( No line-items for 'post-holes' is a good rule to include when saving invoices :) Good example ? THX -AEF On Tue, 18 Feb 1997, Dwight Johnson wrote: > On Tue, 18 Feb 1997, Jose Carlos Benfati wrote: > > > Last time I looked at mSQL it did not have transaction control. Apart from > > that it was very good. I tested it against SOLID webserver and INformix > > I have heard 'transaction control' thrown around. Exactly what is that > feature? > > Thanks, > Dwight > From popmail Tue Feb 18 23:05:23 1997 Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 11:27:46 -0800 (PST) From: Dwight Johnson To: Linux-Business Subject: Re: databases on linux MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO On Tue, 18 Feb 1997, Jose Carlos Benfati wrote: > Last time I looked at mSQL it did not have transaction control. Apart from > that it was very good. I tested it against SOLID webserver and INformix I have heard 'transaction control' thrown around. Exactly what is that feature? Thanks, Dwight From popmail Tue Feb 18 23:27:56 1997 Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 17:42:02 -0300 (EST) From: Jose Carlos Benfati To: Linux-Business Subject: Re: databases on linux MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO On Tue, 18 Feb 1997, Dwight Johnson wrote: > On Tue, 18 Feb 1997, Jose Carlos Benfati wrote: > > > Last time I looked at mSQL it did not have transaction control. Apart from > > that it was very good. I tested it against SOLID webserver and INformix > > I have heard 'transaction control' thrown around. Exactly what is that > feature? > Something that allows you to execute some commands that change the data, and then, after those commands have completed, just say to the server "rollback" and have that data reverted to previous state, as if no change had been applied. Normally when you get a transactional database you also get some other nice features, like transaction isolation level control, locking and crash recovery (after a power outage your transactions are either entirely rolled back or commited.) All "big" databases (Oracle, Informix, Sybase and others) offer transaction control. From popmail Wed Feb 19 03:45:09 1997 Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 17:56:33 -0300 (EST) From: Jose Carlos Benfati To: Linux-Business Subject: Packaged vs. .tgz software (was: databases on linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO On Tue, 18 Feb 1997, Juan A. Pons wrote: > > > Call me a skeptic, but I am always leery(sp) of installing software such > as this from a package, I rather do it from the sources themselves, I > have found many packeages for RedHat (don't know about Debian) that have > been built by people with the best intentions but never-the-less did not > do a complete job. > I am in fact quite impressed by the overall quality and care I've found in the debian packages. It is in my plans to check Red Hat 4.1, but I am quite satisfied with Debian 1.2 I have installed here. Didn't even bother to check other distributions, since afaik they don't include inter-package dependency information, among other things. Of course I can be greatly wrong on that! I recommend Debian for any serious Linux user, but would like to hear from others experiences with other distributions also. From popmail Wed Feb 19 07:38:26 1997 Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 20:32:09 -0800 (PST) From: Allen Francom To: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Hey, question... Re: databases on linux MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Does anyone have any input (BAD input) about either or both SOLID and Empress ? I've evaluated both, I like 'em both. Solid=simple, easy, effective. Empress=Nice documentation, Nice API's, Robust, etc., I'm just trying to cover my bases in case I missed something. Anything like "Too much work to maintain", or "This or that isn't so great" ??? THX -AEF From popmail Wed Feb 19 07:39:50 1997 Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 06:34:32 +0100 (MET) From: Leif Erlingsson To: Linux-Business Subject: linux-biz now has 229 members. Many new. (Was Re: ** Reply to...) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Status: RO -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Sat, 15 Feb 1997 00:14:20 +0100 (MET) I posted a request for members on the list who absolutely does not want to be included in a summary of past posters on the list to reply to ``I Vote No ''. I also asked for .sig files to ``I Vote Yes ''. There has been no mails to I.Vote.No, and nine mails to I.Vote.Yes. This post, therefore, is a summary of past posters on the list, every one of them that are still members on the list. Please *DO* *NOT* include this post in any replies. It is 1440 lines long.... Replies to "I.Vote.Yes"... From: Rob Walker From: sdenny@hex.net (Stephen Denny) From: "W. Reilly Cooley" From: zaz aka Nathan John Grass From: "Daniel B. Harter" From: Kris Carlier From: Camm Maguire From: Dwight Johnson From: Leif Erlingsson Since nobody on the list wrote back that they absolutely do not want me to include their name and data in this summary of past posters on the list, a summary for every past poster that is also still a member on the list follows below the replies from the above members. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 17:54:07 -0800 From: Rob Walker - -- Rob Walker CSE Access | | ciscoSystems, Inc. :|: :|: 150 West Tasman Drive ::|:: ::|:: San Jose, CA 95134 USA .:||||||:....:|||||:. 408.526.8065 rob@cisco.com ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From: sdenny@hex.net (Stephen Denny) Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 21:12:45 -0600 Subject: Intro I operate a small growing ISP in the Dallas/Fort Worth Texas metro area. All the servers are Linux based. (See http://www.hex.net/hns.info.html) Linux has given me flawless service since day one. No doubt I would not have risked entry into this market without this edge over my competitors. If you are in the metroplex I invite you to visit the North Texas Linux Users Group at http://www.ntlug.org. Stephen - -- Stephen Denny sdenny@hex.net Tenured Janitorial Staff Member Hex.Net Superhighway Please refer any questions to management. http://www.hex.net ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 20:05:44 -0800 From: "W. Reilly Cooley" W. Reilly Cooley The Naked Ape Consulting 1509 NE 10th Ave., #104 Portland, OR 97232 503 287-2165 wcooley@navi.net http://www.navi.net/~wcooley As a service, I provide analysis for viruses and poor grammar to senders of unsolicited commercial e-mail at a rate of US$250 per hour. Delivery of said correspondence constitutes a request for the aforementioned services at said price. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Date: Sat, 15 Feb 97 11:20:24 -0500 From: zaz - -- [ From: zaz * EMC.Ver #3.2 ] -- Sure, include me in that list. I never did identify myself, I use this list mostly to keep an eye on things that are going on with linux. Mostly I want to learn from other peoples mistakes/lessons ;) Nate - -- - ----------- * sig last updated Feb 13 1997 * This space for rent * ------------ This mail was from: Nathan J Grass, aka zaz on DALnet - e-mail: zaz@null.net DALnet ChanOP in: #mirc #helpdesk #wasteland Home Site: http://www.voyager.abac.com/zaz/ Employed by MCI: http://www.mci.com/ * Internet Software Support Technician Web Sites of interest: http://www.dal.net/ - http://www.mirc.co.uk/ http://www.adgrafix.com/info/ngrass2/ - http://www.infoseek.com/ This email does NOT reflect the view(s) of my employer(s) this is my opinion and all typos are MINE! Updates replace and VOID previous versions. [Alternate address?...] From: Nathan John Grass Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 21:21:45 -0500 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 13:15:02 -0500 (EST) From: "Daniel B. Harter" > In the beginning, when the list was first started, ``everybody'' > introduced themselves. That was very nice, and generated a lot of > interesting contacts and ideas. I didn't. I suppose I should. I am Daniel Harter. My experience with Linux started around Christmas 1994 (when I got my 1.0 GB Hard Drive for only $500 :-). I was certainly enthusiastic. I had some small problems, but finally got it working on a AMD386SX40 with 4MB RAM! I have upgraded to 16MB only just recently, and have a 486 Motherboard waiting to install. In April 1995 I took an opportunity to work for CITI to set up an ISP on Linux. After the initial installation, I had the opportunity to work on some Defense Contracts CITI has. There I set up a machine to act as a mail/file server in a Test Lab. Although it was lightly used, it served a political need that the Lab have a UNIX Server. After a couple of other jobs, I am now working for MITRE on a project integrating JAVA and CORBA, in addition to setting up a Lotus Domino Network. I am very interested in seting up a Linux Server that might support IIOP. (For more information on CORBA, see http://www.omg.org/) I am looking foward to the Netscape Fast Track Server, and eventually Enterprise Server, on Linux. Enterprise will have a IIOP complient ORB included. Recently I received a P6-200 for my desktop and plan to run a dual boot NT Workstation/RedHat Server. I may decide to go with Caldera Open Linux if that's the only supported Netscape platform. But we'll see. I plan to go to the Linux Expo in April, if my Travel Request goes through. Regards, Daniel Harter (Speaking for myself, any mistakes are mine) ======================================================================= Daniel B. Harter harterd@mitre.org | dharter@harter.pg.md.us The MITRE Corporation (Dept. G055) Open & Client Server Systems Center 1820 Dolley Madison Blvd, MS W432, McLean, VA 22102-3481 (703) 883-5541 FAX: (703) 883-3315 ======================================================================= ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 18:28:08 +0100 (MET) From: Kris Carlier kr= \\\___/// \\ - - // ( @ @ ) +---------------oOOo-(_)-oOOo-------------+ | kris carlier - carlier@iguana.be | | Hiroshima 45, Tsjernobyl 86, Windows 95 | | Linux, the choice of a GNU generation | +------------------------Oooo-------------+ oooO ( ) ( ) ) / \ ( (_/ \_) ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 12:10:36 -0500 From: Camm Maguire Keep up the good work! - -- Camm Maguire camm@enhanced.com ========================================================================== "The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens." -- Baha'u'llah ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 08:04:10 -0800 (PST) From: Dwight Johnson Subject: Linux-Biz--I Vote Yes _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ Dwight Johnson djohnson@olympus.net _/ Computer and Internet Consulting (360) 681-7812 _/ P.O. Box 910, Carlsborg, Washington 98324 _/ - ----------- Since first introducing myself to linux-biz, I have continued to explore Linux and free software. Thanks to discovering it from discussion on this list, I am learning Python and loving it. I am interested in using Linux in internet-based commerce. As a minimally employed free agent, I have had the luxury of exploring Linux, free software, and the internet without having to get down into the grimy limitations of actually doing anything. I hope that will be changing in the near future and that within the next few months I will begin to make money with the new skills I am developing. I have previously programmed in assembly language, FORTRAN, Cobol, Pascal, C, FoxPro, and a number of dialects of Basic over 29 years and ran a consulting and software publishing business for ten and over seven years respectively. I must say I think Python is the nicest programming language I have ever looked into. It's generality, architectural consistency, simplicity, ease of use, and ease of learning are without equal. So I am very thankful to have been exposed to Python on the linux-biz list. As one of the instigators of linux-biz, I blame myself for not creating more of the kinds of seminal posts that generate discussion. The reason I have not done better is that my time has been consumed with family matters rather than with business matters. Discussion on linux-biz has been very slow for the past several months, but the participants are capable at any time of generating profound discussion and this was amply demonstrated in the first two months of the list. Linux-biz could explode into life at any time. Linux and business have a great future and, therefore, I am not surprised to learn that the list has continued to grow. Dwight ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 18:47:12 +0100 (MET) From: Leif Erlingsson My name is Leif Erlingsson. I live in Northern Europe, in Sweden, a country about the shape of California, but only about 8,000,000 people. I was born and raised in Southern Sweden, in a part of the country known as Skane, in the outskirts of a small community of about 3,000 people by the name of Knislinge, about 14 miles north of the small city Kristianstad. I think it was 1984 that I bought my first home computer, a Sinclair QL that I purchased in England, where I was to learn about a computerized microcircuit testsystem I was working with, the LTX. I had been playing with or working with computers at school and work since 1977, and 1984-88 I was a component engineer for Ericsson Telecom responsible for the quality of Linear and Telecom Integrated Circuits. To evaluate new brands or types of circuits and to write automated test routines for incoming inspection, we used a testsystem constructed by the LTX company, based on a Nova 5 computer plus a lot of extra hardware, even a special designed 56 bit vector processor. I believe LTX was/is Boston based, but they had a facility in Woking, Surrey, England, where I was a couple of tomes for a couple of weeks each on training courses. They later moved all training in Europe to Paris, where I also went a couple of weeks on a later occasion. I became quite an expert at the home QL, did 155 new MC 68000 ASM coded basic extention commands using less than 16 KB of PROM, and that *included* the on-line documentation for said commands (the documentation was hand-encoded to take minimal space, with a special and extremely compact assembler-routine to unencode it all, or just the command requested). You will notice I take great pride in that machine- code work. Anyway, it got me a position as a Systemer/Programmer in a communications project ... my boss was also a QL fan, and admired my work. That project was an API between Unix and Ericsson's telephone exchange, the AXE. We also wrote a GUI on top of the API, so we could do file- transfers and have multiple terminal-session to the AXE using an X.25 64 kbps connection. The whole thing was of course client-server, so one could log in from anywhere. I did a lot of the interrupt and socket stuff. Later I switched to Unix Systems administration and eventually changed employer and is now the Postmaster at a big site in Sweden, no names. This site has about 15,000 users on MS Windows clients and less than 100 Unix servers running databases scattered across the country. Also other servers, but I am only hired to take care of the Unix stuff. Me and my colleagues builds and supports the Unix platform, gives assistande to application developers and to the maintenance guys (is that the correct term? I want to indicate the guys inserting backup tapes, starting backups, removing tapes agin, and other routine stuff). I have concentrated on EMail and the configuration of network services, DNS and adapting GPL'd software for our needs. We use HP-UX almost exclusively, and Oracle databases. I also have a little consultancy business on the side, doing Internet, sendmail and Unix support, almost exclusively under Linux. I have worked with Slackware and derivates as well as with RedHat. (I liked Slackware better, but realize that RedHat's installation and upgrade mechanism is the way to go, as long as quality comes first.) I installed Linux at home the first time in the summer 1995, so I am a late-comer to Linux. I am now 38 with a small family, wife and two kids, Jared and Josefine. We live in Stockholm, Sweden, in a part of Stockholm called Farsta Strand. I sell Virtual Domains to anyone who's interested. This mailinglist is run on my own virtual domain, LEGE.COM. Anyone with a company name can have his/her own virtual domain, with any number of email redirects. All our virtual domains have a default email redirect + zero or more specified redirects. Anything@LEGE.COM goes to me, but linux-biz@LEGE.COM stays on the server. And roald@LEGE.COM goes to my brother-in-law... Leif ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Since nobody on the list wrote back that they absolutely do not want me to include their name and data in this summary of past posters on the list, a summary for every past poster that is also still a member on the list follows... (I wrote a perl program to help with this, what else :-)) ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From: Kristof Van Damme Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 16:06:47 +0100 (MET) - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- |Kristof Van Damme The Reference NV | |System Administrator http://www.reference.be | |e-mail: aeneas@reference.be Onderstraat 36 | |voice: +32 9 2340536 9000 Gent | |fax: +32 9 2340537 Belgium | |- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - | | On windows, I always felt limited by the software available. | | On unix, I am limited only by my knowledge. | - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From: Allen Francom Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 00:14:43 -0700 (PDT) How about an Introduction ? I am Allen Francom with NuMedics, Inc. We are producing a client/server system for Telemedicine, specifically Diabetes Health Care. We are a startup company and we've been designing and developing for a little over two years now. Linux is our host 'server' platform because it is not very expensive, and is very flexible. Our client applications rely on ZModem encapsulated transfers of packets that are in Email form. Average phone calls from the client to the host take about 2 minutes. We've avoided network protocols so far because it would take control of the communications session away from the applications and give it to the operating system (Thus opening a big costly can of worms) Our client systems are written in Borland's Delphi for Windows, and in addition to our own custom designed reporting modules, we rely generically upon Crystal Reports and their freely distributable run-time. We've co-located our host with an ISP to take advantage of their modem pool, and thus with no modems of our own, we can handle perhaps 50 to 100 simultaneous callers with one x86 host. In order to make use of Linux for business purposes I have had to really learn Linux over the past 2 years, HOWEVER, I've only commissioned two C/C++ programs, plus less than 30 Perl and Expect scripts. Linux is performing nicely for us in a business role very nearly "Out of the Box". Technical/Business issues we are facing right now include: - - Secure ODBC links to client applications when we begin to make PPP connections instead of TTY/Zmodem. - - Secure sockets from custom client and custom server apps - - Batch/Interactive processing of Visa/MC as it pertains to the applications, their registration and service subscriptions - - Selecting an appropriate, scalable, and platform independant SQL RDBMS. (Looking at Empress, and Solid) - - What accounting systems can you run on Linux ? Should you ? Java wasn't really happening at the time we started out, and we don't know enough about it to know if it will work, and if so just exactly where it would fit in. It is conceivable that our client apps can be turned into Java - I don't think applets would do the trick, however - and thus our client applications can be made at least somewhat platform independant. Right now, our task is to polish a version 1.5, and start marketing in earnest. ( Since we don't appear to have a focus, I figured I'd share this, perhaps others have similar profiles, and then maybe we can decide where to go that would get us all the most benefit ? ) THX, and I look forward to hearing from you. - -AEF ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From: Paul Anderson Date: Mon, 09 Dec 1996 10:46:09 -0500 [No greeting or .sig] ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From: Alan Shutko Date: 13 Oct 1996 13:39:27 -0500 Alan Shutko - The Few, the Proud, the Remaining. Sit In: When you sit down to stand up for your rights... ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From: "Bryan C. Andregg" Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 10:21:46 -0600 Bryan C. Andregg Systems/Network Administrator Internet Direct Communications (913) 841.2220 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From: "Hall, Barrie" Date: Fri, 17 Jan 97 11:01:00 PST Barrie Hall, Senior Networks/Software Engineer, NetComm Ltd, (Cable Data Group). ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From: bc115@scn.org (Bradley J. Willson) Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 14:10:02 -0800 (PST) Bradley J. Willson Willson Consulting Services, an A+ Authorized Service Center! Seattle, Washington 98146 Phone: (206) 439-1164 E-mail: bc115@scn.org -or- bwillson@cuix.pscu.com ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From: benfati@uninet.com.br (Jose Carlos Benfati) Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 20:41:23 -0300 (EST) [No greeting or .sig] ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From: "Braddock C. Gaskill" Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 13:39:40 -0500 (EST) Braddock Gaskill Vice President, Free Software Union FSU Web Page: http://www.jagunet.com/~braddock/fslu/org - - http://www.jagunet.com/~braddock --------- braddock@braddock.com - - - (410) 366-6106 - 3100 St. Paul St. Apt 302, Baltimore, MD, 21218 - - -- Free Software Union! http://www.jagunet.com/~braddock/fslu/org -- - ----------- PGP Public Key: finger braddock@jagunet.com ------------ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From: "Christopher B. Browne" Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 19:03:10 -0600 Christopher B. Browne, cbbrowne@unicomp.net, chris_browne@sdt.com Web: http://www.conline.com/~cbbrowne SAP Basis Consultant, UNIX Guy Windows NT - How to make a 100 MIPS Linux workstation perform like an 8 MHz 286 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From: "Cary B. O'Brien" Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 10:07:48 -0500 (EST) [No greeting or .sig] ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From: Corin Royal Drummond Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 02:51:18 -0800 Corin Royal Drummond Oakland California ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From: Daniel Chalef Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 09:58:30 +0200 (SAT) Daniel Chalef daniel@uunet.co.za UUNET Internet Africa Operations +27 21 6896242 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From: Dave Hahn Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 11:39:36 -0700 I've out and about for a week and a half in the land of Washington and came home to a box full of Linux-Biz messages. I could spend all day reading this stuff! =8-) As to my life with Linux: I started playing with Linux during the 1.1.59 kernel era, but really became involved during the 1.2.8 release from Slakware when I dumped Windows and forged ahead into real computing power. Soon after that I changed employment status from a Novell trainer to a consultant. Currently, I work for a residential REIT (Real Estate Investment Trust) in Colorado. My responsibilities range from maintenance of our vertical market accounting software to development to administration to hardware care. When I first started with Wellsford they were routing e-mail from New York to Denver to Seattle on MS mail. My first assignment was to get the system to work as it was described. After tinkering for a few days I submititted a request to MS for support on mail. Well, two weeks and $250 later the answer was "We don't know either." At that point I decided that Linux was to play a larger role in the life of the company. A scant ISDN line and four hours later Linux accomplished what the other system couldn't. Since then we have converted our file transfers from direct connect (Denver -> New York) to FTP and have added a web server (http://www.wellsford.com). I run a dual boot desktop with Win 95 (Access and VB development) and RedHat 4.0. Also, I have what I call my "bleeding edge" machine. It runs the very latest of everything, on occasion. As to the benefit of Linux in the corporate environment: Our Linux system allows us to manage a portfolio of Real Estate that ranges in the 100 millions, manage communications and provide up to date and attractive information to investors. With out Linux, we definitely wouldn't be where we are today. David Hahn - Systems Analyst Wellsford Residential - Denver, Colorado A computer program does what you tell it to do, not what you want it to do. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From: Don Marti Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 12:54:37 -0500 (EST) Don Marti | Agdia | http://www.agdia.com dmarti@agdia.com | Elkhart, Indiana, USA | 219-264-2014 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From: elf@netcom.com (Marc Singer) Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 14:31:42 -0800 (PST) [No greeting or .sig] ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From: Dr Evan Summers Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 20:21:23 +0200 (SAT) - ---------------------------------------------------------------|-----|-- Evan Summers, PhD Tel +27 82 900-8632 Symphony /|\ /|\ Internet systems integration http://sr.co.za Research { } { } Johannesburg, South Africa mailto:evan@sr.co.za (Pty)Ltd {___} {___} ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From: "Eric L. Green" Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 17:26:31 +0000 Well, since everyone is introducing themselves... My name is Eric Green, and I am the chief systems specialist for Executive Consultants, a vendor of K-12 educational administration systems. That is, we supply a complete value-added computer solution to common educational administration packages (we don't sell no stinkin' shrink-wrap :-). I am also the person who ported our package, Principal's & Administrator's Management System, to Linux. We are running the SCO Unix version of the database engine we'd been using. It required a re-compile of our code, and our beta testers also found a lot of OS-specific stuff in our code. The biggest plusses: Speed (much faster than SCO Unix on the same hardware) Networking. Cost. The biggest minusses: Dumb terminal oriented multiport cards not available (just modem-oriented ones for ISP's). TTY-oriented administration tools, especially printer administration tools. A reliable user-friendly backup program. We are running Redhat's version of Linux. We approached Caldera, but they showed little interest in working with a solutions provider. Besides, my tests of their software showed that it did not give us any advantages over plain old RedHat (since we don't do windows -- school hardware will barely support Windows 3.1, much less X-Windows). The biggest gripe I've had so far is with Redhat's arbitrary change in the "shutdown" program between Release 3.03 and Release 4.0. Our clients never see the raw operating system. They see a custom "Systems Utilities" menu which contains a bunch of shell and perl scripts that I wrote to automate tasks. Now "Shutdown" doesn't work on that menu. That's not much of a problem now -- I'll just install 3.03 on client systems -- but as the hardware world moves on, it WILL be a problem since of course the 1.2.13 kernel won't ever support PnP etc. Sort of like the problem we have with the old Xenix systems we have out in the field, where the tape drives are wearing out and there are no more replacements... - ----- Eric Lee Green exec@prysm.net Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 16:19:15 GMT - -- Eric Lee Green exec@prysm.net Executive Consultants Systems Specialist Educational Administration Solutions ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From: "Bryan L'Huillier" Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 04:00:12 -0500 (EST) [No greeting or .sig] ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From: Gary Richardson Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 06:59:38 -0500 Gary Richardson Blue Mountain Christian Retreat ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From: Gaylon Vorwaller Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 10:30:45 -0700 I am a Linux newbie, but my brother develops CAD under Sun Solaris, and has ported it with great success to Linux. He has dealers worldwide, including one in Stockholm: Cadsystem AB, Box 7103, 191 07 Sollentuna Tel 08-626-8860 info@cadsystem.se http://www.algonet.se/-cadsys His internet site is http://www.vx.com ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From: "Geoffrey D. Bennett" Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 04:10:08 +1030 (CST) Geoffrey D. Bennett (geoffrey@netcraft.com.au) Computer Systems Manager, NetCraft Australia http://www.netcraft.com.au/geoffrey/ Red Hat Linux Resellers: http://www.netcraft.com.au/redhat/ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From: gregory j pryzby Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 19:41:22 -0500 (EST) gregory j pryzby (greg) | gjp@sddi.com Founded Linux Users Group of Manassas | lugman@wauug.erols.com Check out the Home Pages | http://wauug.erols.com/lugman.html Love animals-- don't eat them! | http://www.sddi.com/gjp.html ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From: Robert Hart Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 08:18:15 +1100 (EST) Well After Leif's post, I had better move myself! I am Robert Hart, now living in Melbourne, Australia having moved here 5 weeks ago to set up my own consulting company. Prior to this, I spent 12 years in Australia's remote outback - in Port Hedland and Newman which are in the Pilbara region of Western Australia in the far north west of Australia. The Pilbara is an area larger than the UK, but with a population of under 25,000. I have been lucky in my life to travel quite widely, having been born in northern Nigeria and lived as a child in Singapore. I studied European languages at school in England (English, French, German and Latin) and then worked in insurance and air traffic control. In air traffic control, I worked (on the ATC not electronics side) of the first digital air traffic control simulator before moving to Gatwick airport (London). Having failed an eyesight test, which meantI could not go for further promotion in ATC, I studied Maths & Physics to get into University to read Aeronautics. It was their that I first really started to use computers; my research project involved the construction of a mathematical model of canard wing aerodynamics. I graduated from Imperial College in 1979 and emigrated to Australia with my (Australian) fiancee. I worked at Monash University in Melbourne in thermo-fluid mechanics research - part of this work involved the design, construction and coding of a Z80 CP/M system to act as the intelligent data acquisition system for the research rig. When we upgraded the (Cromemco) machine to dual CPUs (Z80 and MC68000) I had my first taste of running a Unix-like system on a micro - Cromix. After some 5 years I left there to work as lecturer in Mech Eng at Hedland College in Port Hedland - where aamongst other things I introduced CAD/CAM to the College after winning some special government/industry funding. Throughout my time at Hedland College I was ever more involved in IT/IS from teaching through to internal College systems. In 1990 as principal of their major remote campus, I specified, funded and then installed, administered and maintained the College's first LAN (Netware 2.15). I became Manager, Information Systems for the College in Jan 1993 and first started using Linux in 1994 (Yggdrasil and then Red Hat) on my personal workstation. When I left the College, Linux was an integral and vital part of the environment, running our Internet services, WAN links and staff/student dialup at two campuses. Going on line shortly will be a Linux CDROM server (2 Buslogic cards, 13 CDROMs...) in the library... Robert Hart iweft@ipax.com.au Voice: +61 (0)3 9735 3586 InterWeft, 35 Summit Road, Lilydale, Victoria 3140, Australia IT, data and voice networking Consultancy Strategic IT business planning Internet planning, implementation, security and configuration ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From: Adam Holt Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 21:49:44 -0500 [No greeting or .sig] ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From: Idan Shoham Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 16:40:14 -0700 (MST) -- Idan Shoham, M-Tech idan@m-tech.ab.ca http://www.m-tech.ab.ca Text clips from mail posted Thu, 7 Nov 1996 16:04:47 -0700 (MST)... Most of our clients are in the following industries: Oil and gas producers Healthcare providers Local government Notice: no software developers. Every development shop I've seen or heard of has Linux fulfilling some role or other. However, this is not true of shops run by/for end-users, where development, if it happens at all, is a minor and frequently unsuccessful exercise. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From: Ilia Diulgerov Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 18:01:25 +0200 (EET) index lists help :-) She is subscribed, though. (It is she?) ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ To: Otto Hammersmith Date: Thu, 07 Nov 1996 10:45:12 -0800 I come from a corporate IS (information systems) environment, and I think that I've got a pretty good handle on why Linux hasn't displaced the major server OS's in the corporate environment. I used to work a MacMillan Bloedel, which is Canada's largest forestry company. They've got a mix of HP 3000s, VAXs and Tandems (all are proprietary minicomputers), HP 9000's and DEC Alphas(Unix), and lots of Windows NT servers. The client mix is primarily Windows 3.11 for Workgroups (they haven't upgraded to Win95) and some dumb terminals. They've got a WAN based on TCP/IP going to most of their big mills in British Columbia, but most of their operations are isolated. I believe they do have an X.25 network connecting some of the HP 3000's together. They still don't have a web site yet (for a $6 billion company, that's pretty bad). They have started building an intranet though (I started it). The Information Systems & Services department is reponsible for most of the computer work in the company. Some projects are done outside the scope of IS&S as capital project. IS&S personnel are charged out at the rate of $575 per day. All work is charged back to internal customers. Typically, projects range in cost from $50,000 for a small project to several million for a large project (such as data warehousing). With dollar values this large, pretty well all of the internal clients consider their projects to be "mission critical". And when you are spending several hundred thousand dollars on a project, you don't mind spending a few extra thousand dollars for "brand name" hardware and software. The primary problem with Linux is that it is percieved to have a quality control problem compared to a "brand name" OS like HP/UX. I think that this is because the "brand name" OS's have a full set of commercial applications available, whereas Linux has only a subset of these applications. This is primarily because software companies have difficulty supporting an OS which has some many permutations. Why do software companies hate supporting Linux? Slackware, and the other roll-your-own distributions are Linux's weakness. Because these distributions are only upgradeable in a piece-meal manner, many of the libraries tend to be out-of-date, which creates havoc with commercial applications that are distributed as binaries. Some commercial companies, such as Netscape, do release "unsupported" Linux versions. Others, such as Oracle, do not release Linux versions. Linux also suffers from the Unix vs. Windows NT battle that is going on it the corporate environment. Unix is great, and it's the most powerful OS for a programmer such as me. But you need a "guru" to maintain it. Windows NT, on the other hand, does not require a "guru". Large companies do have "guru's" on staff. But they are typically very overworked and hard to replace. They can also be very expensive. It's much easier to plop in a Windows NT server, because it has a Windows interface and there are plenty of people who can figure out how to use the GUI to do things without much training. Not to say that Linux hasn't been successful in such an environment, but primarily it's success has depended on "Skunkworks" type of projects where the developers have installed Linux on old PC's that were just laying around. I'd like to see some examples where Linux was specified at the start as part of a mission critical solution. I think such examples will be very difficult to come by. Enough for now. Cheers, - Jim ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From: "James M. Darlack" Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 11:24:15 -0500 (EST) I am basically retired and currently attempting to networks several PCs, DEC Alphas, and a Sun ELC. My first attempt is to get 2 Alphas talking with a hub and TCP/IP. I have the first Alpha running linux, and supplying an internet feed to the other Alphas via internet masquerading. The second Alpha is running Windoze NT 4.0 Beta 2. I typically do email on linux, and browsing on NT. It works great! I can connect as many computers as necessary with only one connectin to the ISP. (This was accomplished thru my best frined, Ken Robb! Thanks, pal.). My next step is to get file sharing accomplished. It was recomended to get samba running for file sharing bwtween the the linx and NT Alphas. Thus, I am attempting to figure out how to get samba on linux running. But what should I do on the NT box???? The ultimate goal is a LAN network of computers for telecom projects, webpage developement, hosting of news and web pages. They will all share one connection to an ISP. Eventually, I will have a 7x24 connection to an ISP. Im leaning towards apache, or roxen for a web server. Any info on file sharing, samba or an alternative, and web servers is appreciated. Webulator! Jim ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From: "Juan A. Pons" Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 10:54:14 -0500 (EST) +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Juan A. Pons E-mail: jpons@iacnet.com | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Manager, Systems Development Phone : (617) 393-3394 | | Information Access Center \\\ Fax : (617) 393-3211 | | http://www.iacenter.com (. .) | +------------------------------o00-(_)-00o------------------------------+ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From: Info junkie Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 07:33:57 -0500 (EST) I guess like most people i have a second job. I work in a telecom research institution. Here is a story i never get tired of telling. I believe i was one of the first people in my company who introduced linux at work. I know of a few others used mainly with wireless modems Our work environment is mainly HP-UX machines. I do Digital Signal Processing (DSP) development on Texas Instrument TMS* chips. The environment runs on DOS. Couldnt believe my luck! So one weekend i came in, brought my own ethernet card, a small harddrive and proceeded to install slackware. Loaded half the drive with DOS and the Development environment. Went on for two days posting on the linux newsgrps before i got the environment running out of DOSEMU. The environment runs unbelievably smooth; i leave it on for months without rebooting. A typical scenario would require to open three MS-DOS windows and running three DOS programs concurently. (hmm .. couldnt do that in windows or could you?) Anyways, one day a Texas Instruments techie walks in to help us with a problem ... and he was pretty shocked at what i had done to their tools. He thought we had purchased their Sunos environment (which was $10 000 more expensive, since it was multi-user ;-> ). But how come this had color when the sunos one was grey scale; and how come it was running on HP? And how come i also had the emulator hooked up? Here is what was happening: At that point the PC was networked and NFS mounted; i had my three regular DOS windows open via a telnet on an Rxvt running on the HP. The DOS DSP environment is pretty colorful so it looked nice on rxvt. Nicer, i would think than on a DOS VGA screen. I was viewing the ouput of one of the programs (via tail -f) through the NFS mount on my HP (i.e without telneting) I also had hooked up this piece of hardware, an emulator, via the serial ports and was interacting with it [this is what the TI guy was here for]. Normally the emulator required two sources of input/output. The standard would be to hook it up on one side with a PC which would be downloading binaries to it and via another of its extensions you would hookup either a vt100 terminal or another PC and send commands to it. What i had done was have two serial cables to the two COM ports on the PC and fire kermit on both of them. so two xterms telneted into the linuxbox would be interacting to this emulator (which was also hooked up to our test board). I had also popped copies of two windows to a colleague who was observing (and inputting ideas). My colleague was voice conferencing with us via phone from about 500km to the west of us. I hope i havent bored anyone. The PC has since found other uses such as an anonymous ftp server and a quickcam source (cant run those on an HP!) cheers jamal *------------------------------ * * tech support, * * Globalink Communications, * * email: tech@glcom.com * * http://www.glcom.com * *-------------------------------* ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From: John Storrs Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 12:34:25 +0000 (GMT) I've just taken part in a European Commission event in Brussels - the First SME Technology Days (for those not in the know, SME = Small and Medium Enterprises). I was there as an exhibitor, among other things publicising Linux and the free software movement. I had a good opportunity to show Linux in action and talk to some of the Commission people about the possibility of financial support for Linux developments. There seems to be a good chance for well focussed proposals submitted by an appropriate (European) partnership. Commission support would pay for concentrated software development and enable projects which otherwise might not develop sufficient momentum. Before taking this much further I need to get people's ideas about possible project areas. I hope this mailing list will provide a forum for discussion. As a starting point I'd like to direct people's attention to my web site and the LME's Enterprise Automation project (which is just a half-baked sketch at the moment). It seems to me that the approach indicated there would provide the right sort of framework for a comprehensive business information management system. Some important keywords would be: open system, regular, modular, extensible, configurable. The right system would be platform and user interface independent, concerning itself with logical functions. Though our focus and development environment will be Linux, it should run under all the common OS's, including MSWindows. User interfaces should be defined in terms of abstractions above the widget set level (CDE standards?), with efficient mappings to particular GUI implementations. I hope for some constructive reactions to this. John John Storrs, Laboratory for Micro Enterprise Oakley Court, Benson, Wallingford OX10 6QH, UK tel/fax 01491 832932 email lme@storrs.demon.co.uk www http://www.i-way.co.uk/~storrs/ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From: Louis Mandelstam Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 18:42:30 +0200 (SAT) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- L.Mandelstam - System Administrator louis@sacc.org.za S A Council of Churches, PO Box 4921, Johannesburg, 2000, South Africa tel:+27-11-492-1380 x114 fax:+27-11-492-1448 mobile: +27-83-229-0712 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 18:45:45 +0200 (SAT) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Louis Mandelstam (Acting in my personal capacity for a change) email: louis@lia.net mobile: +27-83-229-0712 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From: Marco Mariani Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 22:05:30 +0100 (MET) [No greeting or .sig] ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From: Carlo Daffara Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 23:59:59 +0100 (MET) I am Carlo Daffara, technical manager for a local ISP/consulting firm in Italy. We started as pure ISPs, and now quickly moving to intranet and software consulting. We are a pure linux shop, as all our machines use linux for everything. We choose linux because of availability of source code and because of cost, but the first reason is by large the most important. We are actually designing a line of closed servers, fully based on a custom version of linux. They will be selled preconfigured for the customer, and they will act as a "hands off" server, for example for internal email/fax management. I think that if linux is selled this way (eg. noone knows it's linux inside that cute midnight blue box) it can make a great seller. If you start by saying "it's linux" you lose a customer - here in italy all the magazines are microsoft-only, and so all the other solutions are simply not considered. Just a side note: I recall a web page that collected several examples of linux in business (like toyota, or the Hungarian Oil company - if I remember the names right). Does someone remember it? Best regards Carlo Daffara Conecta Telematica ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From: Ariel Mazzarelli Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 03:41:52 -0800 [No greeting or .sig] ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From: Michael Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 14:31:06 -0500 (EST) [No greeting or .sig] ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From: mark david mcCreary Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 21:03:40 -0600 Greetings from Texas, where I am a one man ISP. With no intentions of getting any bigger. One of my problems is providing a transisition for my customers should I get run over by a truck tomorrow. Or even want to take a vacation :-) I'd like to explore the idea of some sort of co-op where I could trade backup services with other people in the same situation. So that I could maintain a high degree of reliable service. A more pressing need (he says optimistictly :-) is to get some redundancy in my network, so that I am not dependent on any one location having to be up all the time. Maybe swap boxes. I'll put up an old 486 box on my rack, and give you root access. You do the same on your rack. So if there is anybody out there that might have similiar needs, please let me know. mark mark david mcCreary Internet Tools, Inc. 4615 Post Oak Place, Suite 140 mdm@internet-tools.com Houston, Texas 77027 http://www.internet-tools.com 713.627.9600 [LINUX-BIZ is run on one of Mark's computers.] ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From: Matthew Hannigan Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 16:32:52 +1100 (EST) [No greeting or .sig] ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From: Mark Hamstra Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 19:35:36 -0500 (EST) Mark Hamstra Bentley Systems, Inc. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From: Michael Dillon Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 22:45:11 -0800 (PST) Michael Dillon - Internet & ISP Consulting Memra Software Inc. - Fax: +1-250-546-3049 http://www.memra.com - E-mail: michael@memra.com ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From: Michael Morrison Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 01:48:31 -0800 (PST) [No greeting or .sig] ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From: Mitchell Leben Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 09:20:30 -0600 (CST) - ---------------------------- Mitchell Leben mitch@smithphoto.com http://snappy.smithphoto.com/~mitch - ---------------------------- ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From: Magnus Lycka Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 06:05:38 +0100 (MET) Magnus Lycka, Magnus.Lycka@tripnet.se, http://www.tripnet.se/home/mly Stortfjallsgatan 12, S-431 35 Molndal, Sweden. Tel: +46 (0)31 87 35 40 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From: Paul Foley Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 17:10:05 +1300 Paul Foley --- PGPmail preferred PGP key ID 0x1CA3386D available from keyservers fingerprint = 4A 76 83 D8 99 BC ED 33 C5 02 81 C9 BF 7A 91 E8 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From: Otto Hammersmith Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 10:47:33 -0600 (CST) I just joined the list yesterday. I wanted to find out why using Linux in business was such a vexing topic... (reasons later :) I currently work as a Systems Programmer for Wolfram Research (Mathematica, for a name that might ring bells). I've been tinkering with Linux for a few years now (read: I didn't bother to count). I think I started out like a lot of poeple... a student who wanted to have a Unix machine to hog for homework, regardless of the fact that it was a 486sx25 with only 4 megs of RAM. Now, for the reason I don't understand why Linux in business is such a big deal. In the years since I started using Linux I've worked at three different software houses. At every single one, Linux was used in some way. The first was a DOS-turning-Windows software house with a Novell network. They had been using Compuserve as their mail gateway... I switched them over to cheaper (and flat-rate) local ISP using a Linux machine (scrounged from the junk lying around) as a POP server snaggin the mail over a 9600 baud ppp line. The second, a company modifing Solaris to C2 and B1 secure levels. We ended up using Linux as one of the firewalls, since my predecessor coudln't (or didn't want to :) get TIS compiled on Solaris... not to mention Solaris x86 is a dog and it would've killed the 386 I installed Linux on. And now at Wolfram, most of our development is done on Linux boxen. So, maybe someone could anser my question... why is it (precieved as?) so difficult to convince companies to use Linux. In my experince all you have to do is show that Linux is cheaper and easier to deal with.. which is true as long as you're not trying to shove a square Linux peg into a round hole. (there is just simply not one platform for all things) - -- -Otto ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From: Oliver Elphick Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 08:41:33 +0000 (GMT) Oliver Elphick olly@enterprise.net Isle of Wight http://homepages.enterprise.net/olly ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From: Bruce Murphy Date: Tue, 05 Nov 1996 18:53:08 +0800 Packrat (BSc/BE;COSO;Wombat II Designer) Nihil illegitemi carborvndvm. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From: Paul Cummings Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 17:53:56 GMT =============== ============================================== Paul Cummings "That's an awful lot of ships." --Ivanova paulc@sol.co.uk "That's a bloody awful lot of ships!" --Marcus =Linux=v2.0.27= ============================================== ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From: Paul Tyson Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 22:52:55 -0600 (CST) Paul Tyson ptyso@southwind.net Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 21:35:41 -0600 (CST) ********************************************************* *JULIE TYSON ptyso@southwind.net * *Wichita Chapter, SAI BASS..the foundation on which * *Bass, Rhythm Central all things musical are built! * ********************************************************* ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From: Magnus Redin Date: Mon, 3 Feb 97 16:55:17 MET We have been asked by a Swedish based company to offer support on their Linux systems. They have offices in Sweden, France, USA, Hongkong, Singapore, China and Japan. They ask for telephone support during the local office hours in English and preferably with an additional knowledge in the local language. They need to keep WWW servers and misc Linux machines running. We can only provide local support in Sweden and also for France if they accept support in English. It would be nice to be able to offer a complete solution for them. Are there people and companies on this list that can join in? We would like to work together with other companies to provide them with a good solution. Regards, - --Free software--I Magnus Redin I WWW http://www.signum.se/ Ibland får man I Signum Support AB I email redin@signum.se mer än vad man I Teknikringen 8 I fax +46 (0)13 214700 betalar för. I S-583 30 LINKOPING I tel +46 (0)13 214600 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From: Scott Christley Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 11:47:01 -0500 Scott Christley NET-Community ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From: "Sheldon E. Newhouse" Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 08:41:19 -0500 (EST) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Sheldon E. Newhouse | e-mail: sen1@math.msu.edu | | Mathematics Department | | | Michigan State University | telephone: 517-355-9684 | | E. Lansing, MI 48824-1027 USA | FAX: 517-432-1562 | --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From: Sherwin Kaplan Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 11:21:57 -0800 [No greeting or .sig] ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From: Steve Martin Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 11:29:17 -0700 (MST) - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Steve Martin | 43rd Law of Computing: smartin@henge.com | Anything that can go wr&#* http://www.henge.com/~smartin | ** Error: Core dumped - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From: Elliot Lee Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 23:47:45 -0500 [No greeting or .sig] ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From: "Lex Spoon" Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 19:05:54 -0500 (EST) [No greeting or .sig] ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From: Todd Weible Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 19:48:35 -0700 (MST) Todd toddw@cyberhighway.net ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From: Thomas Griffing Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 00:30:52 -0600 +--------------------------+----------------+--------------------------+ | Thomas L. Griffing | |~~\ /~~\ ~|~ | Dallas Softworks, Inc. | | Perl Hacker, Linux Bigot | | | `--. | | "making technology work" | | mailto:tom@dsworks.com | |__/ \__/ _|_ | http://www.dsworks.com | ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From: Vladislav Papayan Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 09:20:29 -0500 My name is Vladislav Papayan. I live in Florida. I am a stuff engineer at Casi-Rusco. Casi-Rusco makes security badge control systems for very large and small companies all around the world. I write the client side of the application running on Wind/winNT I started using Linux (Slackware 3.0) in October 1994 when I was still working at IBM on WorkPlace OS for PPC. Linux is my recent expirience in Unix-like systems. Even though I am not an advanced user, and know very litle about system administration (I eveb berely know how to use vi or emacs too) I like linux. I have been thinking about starting my own business (part-time so far) doing custom client-server programming using Linux as a server and Windows-Delphi as client. So far am in process of writing my demo program (the client side) and I am experimenting with Linux (Debian and Redhat distributions). I was once asked by a real estate to set them up on the internet -- So I thought that the best way to go is set up Linux as a server on running Postgress95 or msql and use Lotus Approach or Visual dBase as easy implement client. It turned out that I could not find a good full featured ODBC driver for those DBs and to go otherwise would be too expensive for my client -- so they were not interested (by now they probably went to a service provider and asked to desing a couple of web pages an pay $30 a month). I am also trying to teach my dad how to use computers (he is completely computer illiterate) and chose Linux as the place to start. I had difficulties because, for example -- I still kept his windows partion where does Quicken -- so I could not find anything for Linux that is as easy to use as Quicken. Then he wanted to print his resume out and again... First I could not setup a printer, then I could find what word processor he needs to install to change fonts and underline words and then print the whole thing out. I am sure you could do all of that in Linux -- only for a person who just startin to use computers it is hard. I new he could do his resume using Write for Wind. -- and that's what we did. I know that by now you could buy several packages to do WP on Linux -- but they cost and for some you also have to buy motif. I would like to chart out step by step what one would need to do if he would be asked to teach some one how to work with computers using Linux. what distribution to install what packages to install the easy way to connect to internet and from were to start teaching. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ PLEASE DO **NOT** INCLUDE THIS MAIL IN ANY REPLIES -- PLEASE!!! ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ == Leif Erlingsson http://www.lege.com +46 8 604-0995 FAX +46 8 605-2551 pgp -kvc leif@lege.com DB 47 2F B1 F8 6B E5 92 7A 97 5C C8 7E 62 CA 7C Stockholm, Sweden, Tellus, Milky Way, Gods Universe. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: latin1 iQCVAgUBMwpmuQ0882B94nEhAQHzmQQApPQt/bHgT2B41pmVZZtnEtLUteLJFQ4y MQHMTcVHt1lC7l8nDHRDrtk+cDdx7lHlc6upEYVBeuKmDC0f1yPFJU5bEm7bXmBg YoIVr/yC/AThr9zy9AgAuKABdsSCz1YaAU1l1FxkMrW9YKlrDWyNAqilwsTJzQ3M XVBsRJcg4bM= =ZvaJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Please contact for Public Key, if you don't have it. ID: 1024/7DE27121 1996/08/17 Leif Erlingsson From popmail Wed Feb 19 07:51:45 1997 Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 21:41:53 -0800 (PST) From: Dwight Johnson To: Jose Carlos Benfati cc: Linux-Business Subject: Re: Packaged vs. .tgz software (was: databases on linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO On Tue, 18 Feb 1997, Jose Carlos Benfati wrote: > On Tue, 18 Feb 1997, Juan A. Pons wrote: > > > > > > > Call me a skeptic, but I am always leery(sp) of installing software such > > as this from a package, I rather do it from the sources themselves, I > > have found many packeages for RedHat (don't know about Debian) that have > > been built by people with the best intentions but never-the-less did not > > do a complete job. Juan is referring to packages from the 'contrib' directory, I am sure. These need to be carefully differentiated from those that belong to the Red Hat distribution which are supported by Red Hat and built properly. > I am in fact quite impressed by the overall quality and care I've found in > the debian packages. It is in my plans to check Red Hat 4.1, but I am > quite satisfied with Debian 1.2 I have installed here. > Didn't even bother to check other distributions, since afaik they don't > include inter-package dependency information, among other things. Of > course I can be greatly wrong on that! You are wrong. Red Hat 4.0 and above includes all package dependency information. > I recommend Debian for any serious Linux user, but would like to hear from > others experiences with other distributions also. You certainly owe it to yourself to check out Red Hat and compare it with Debian. _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ Dwight Johnson djohnson@olympus.net _/ Computer and Internet Consulting (360) 681-7812 _/ P.O. Box 910, Carlsborg, Washington 98324 _/ From popmail Wed Feb 19 07:51:43 1997 Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 07:53:07 +0200 (SAT) From: Dr Evan Summers To: Linux-Business Subject: Re: Packaged vs. .tgz software (was: databases on linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO > I recommend Debian for any serious Linux user, but would like to hear from > others experiences with other distributions also. Red Hat is great of course. It's package manager, RPM, is superb, and all in all they have done a very professional job putting the distribution together. We use it for major production environments. Regards Evan ---------------------------------------------------------------|-----|-- Evan Summers, PhD Tel +27 82 900-8632 Symphony /|\ /|\ Internet systems integration http://sr.co.za Research { } { } Johannesburg, South Africa mailto:evan@sr.co.za (Pty)Ltd {___} {___} From popmail Wed Feb 19 17:55:07 1997 Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 22:45:52 +1100 (EST) From: Robert Hart To: Dr Evan Summers cc: Linux-Business Subject: Re: Packaged vs. .tgz software (was: databases on linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO On Wed, 19 Feb 1997, Dr Evan Summers wrote: > > > I recommend Debian for any serious Linux user, but would like to hear from > > others experiences with other distributions also. > > > Red Hat is great of course. It's package manager, RPM, is superb, and all > in all they have done a very professional job putting the distribution > together. We use it for major production environments. I would second that. I do not have any experience with Debian and so cannot comment. However, having run Slackware and Yggdrasil before Red Hat, I have found Red Hat to be superior since their first release. Robert Hart hartr@interweft.com.au Voice: +61 (0)3 9735 3586 http://www.interweft.com.au/ InterWeft, 35 Summit Road, Lilydale, Victoria 3140, Australia IT, data and voice networking Strategic IT business planning Internet planning, implementation, security and configuration From popmail Wed Feb 19 17:55:20 1997 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rn_Elenfors?= To: "'Linux-Business'" Subject: RE: databases on linux Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 13:23:47 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Status: RO All "big" databases (Oracle, Informix, Sybase and others) offer transaction control. There is also a bunch of products called Transaction Managers which control transactions over several databases, even distributed over several computer and platforms. The only one I've got experience with is Tuxedo from Bea Systems (other products are Encina and Top-End), which uses an open standard called XA to interface with the DBMS'. Does anyone know if any Linux-based DBMS have good transaction control (Postgres?) or even if there is something similar to a transaction manager for Linux/UNIX, preferably free? /Björn Elenfors From popmail Wed Feb 19 17:56:09 1997 Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 12:50:20 GMT From: Hansel Kwok To: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Re: Packaged vs. .tgz software Status: RO > > > > Red Hat is great of course. It's package manager, RPM, is superb, and all > > in all they have done a very professional job putting the distribution > > together. We use it for major production environments. > > I would second that. I do not have any experience with Debian and so > cannot comment. However, having run Slackware and Yggdrasil before Red > Hat, I have found Red Hat to be superior since their first release. > Unfortunatelly, I found that RedHat 4 was a bit disappointed... many basic configurations were incorrect. I think that package manager is a good ideas for standard system softwares, but for local applications (like INN and TRN to name a few) I prefer to compile it from scratch so that I can make it to do what I want it to do and to reside at the place I want it to reside. :) Hansel -- Hansel Kwok. Telephone: +44 (0)171 5946309 Research Student, Mobile: +44 (0)956 414898 Digi. Comms. Section, EEED Email: h.kwok@ic.ac.uk Imperial College of Science, : hansel@gih.com Technology and Medicine, London. : hansel@gih.co.uk From popmail Wed Feb 19 17:56:54 1997 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rn_Elenfors?= To: "'Michael McLay'" , "'linux-biz@lege.com'" Subject: RE: databases on linux Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 16:32:24 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Status: RO > Do you have a URL reference to the XA standard? No, I don't have any URL to the standard itself. However, a quick search on the X/Open WWW-server gives the following URL with ordering information on the standards document: http://www.rdg.opengroup.org/public/pubs/catalog/tp.htm /Björn From popmail Wed Feb 19 19:51:15 1997 Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 11:47:39 -0500 (EST) From: "Juan A. Pons" Subject: Re: Packaged vs. .tgz software (was: databases on linux) To: Jose Carlos Benfati Cc: Linux-Business MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Status: RO I have not had the opportunity to check Debian out myself but plan on doing so in the near future, as well as Linux PRO from WGS. I have been using RedHat for quite a while now and have been very satisfied with it. The support mail lists are excellent and they seem to be on top of all the the security issues arising and come up with patches usually the same day! Rpm (RedHat Package Manager) is now in version 2.3, and has had inter-package dependencies since version 2.0 (I beleive). RedHat 4.0 and now 4.1 have supported the PAM (Pluggable Authentication Module) spec. as developed by SUN, and have support for it in vistually all applications that require authentication. PAM allows you so easily substitute your authentication Mechanism with ANY PAM aware system such as smart IDs, Kerberos, MD5, Retina Scans, etc... and many others without having to code applications to specifically support them, as long as the application is PAM aware it will use any authentication system you may have installed. About packages for RedHat, packages that come from RedHat itself are very well put together indeed, and I can also rely on some packages that are built by a number of activists for RedHat, but rpms built by others I use with caution. One neat thing about rpm is that they have built in PGP/MD5/size signature capability and also you can install via shared NFS mounts or via ftp by suppling it with a URL, meaning you don't even have to copy the package to your local machine. The digital signature and ftp installtion are the two best features of rpm in my opinion. I've heard excellent things about the Debian Destributions and plan on checking it out soon too. -J On Tue, 18 Feb 1997, Jose Carlos Benfati wrote: > > I am in fact quite impressed by the overall quality and care I've found in > the debian packages. It is in my plans to check Red Hat 4.1, but I am > quite satisfied with Debian 1.2 I have installed here. > > Didn't even bother to check other distributions, since afaik they don't > include inter-package dependency information, among other things. Of > course I can be greatly wrong on that! > > I recommend Debian for any serious Linux user, but would like to hear from > others experiences with other distributions also. > +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Juan A. Pons E-mail: jpons@iacnet.com | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Manager, Systems Development Phone : (617) 393-3394 | | Information Access Center \\\ Fax : (617) 393-3211 | | http://www.iacenter.com (. .) | +------------------------------o00-(_)-00o------------------------------+ From popmail Thu Feb 20 10:01:10 1997 Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 18:54:17 +0100 (MET) From: Kris Carlier To: Leif Erlingsson cc: Linux-Business Subject: Re: linux-biz now has 229 members. Many new. (Was Re: ** Reply to...) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Since my signature doesn't reveal too much, and as I haven't introduced myself yet (though I strongly doubt anyone would be interested): Living in Belgium (Tervuren, near Brussels), being paid by MoD Be, managing (not alone) the WAN of the joint staff of my employer. This WAN includes painframes (Siemens BS2000), UNIX-servers (Sinix-Z, Sinix-Mips), but merely Micro$oft software: now mostly WfW, but migrating towards NT 4.0 workstation, with NT 4.0 servers. A lot of Lan Server (os2) stuff too. Iguana = Independent Group of Unix-Alikes & Networking Activists. In my spare time (huh ?) I also (used to) write for a couple of Belgian computer magazines. Beleive me, writing about linux and related software is easy. not ! (at least, writing may be fun, but convincing the editor in chief to publish...) kr= \\\___/// \\ - - // ( @ @ ) +---------------oOOo-(_)-oOOo-------------+ | kris carlier - carlier@iguana.be | | Hiroshima 45, Tsjernobyl 86, Windows 95 | | Linux, the choice of a GNU gener8ion | +------------------------Oooo-------------+ oooO ( ) ( ) ) / \ ( (_/ \_) From popmail Thu Feb 20 10:01:10 1997 From: Jos Vos To: Dwight Johnson cc: Jose Carlos Benfati , Linux-Business Subject: Re: Packaged vs. .tgz software (was: databases on linux) Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 18:54:15 +0100 Status: RO > On Tue, 18 Feb 1997, Jose Carlos Benfati wrote: > > > On Tue, 18 Feb 1997, Juan A. Pons wrote: > > > > > Call me a skeptic, but I am always leery(sp) of installing software such > > > as this from a package, I rather do it from the sources themselves, I > > > have found many packeages for RedHat (don't know about Debian) that have > > > been built by people with the best intentions but never-the-less did not > > > do a complete job. > > Juan is referring to packages from the 'contrib' directory, I am sure. > These need to be carefully differentiated from those that belong > to the Red Hat distribution which are supported by Red Hat and built > properly. I'm not so sure about that... Unfortunately, I have the same feelings with some of the packages of the Red Hat core distribution. They just do not correspond to my "quality standards". The INN package of 3.0.3 was the worst example I remember. Not only was the ownership of several files wrong, the spec file also was an example of how you should _not_ create a package (using %post scripts whenever that was totally unneccesary). I have seen several other examples of packages that could be improved. Despite this, I still think the Red Hat people do a great job and build a very useful system, but it's certainly not perfect. -- -- Jos Vos -- X/OS Experts in Open Systems BV | Phone: +31 20 6938364 -- Amsterdam, The Netherlands | Fax: +31 20 6948204 From popmail Thu Feb 20 10:01:10 1997 Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 11:56:59 GMT From: "Eric L. Green" To: afrancom@numedics.com CC: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Re: Hey, question... Re: databases on linux Status: RO > Does anyone have any input (BAD input) about either or both > SOLID and Empress ? Think about consumer protections. Companies located outside of the United States don't have to abide by U.S. consumer protection laws, and are reasonably immune from lawsuit in U.S. courts in the event that they screw you over (you have to sue them in the courts of their particular country... U.S. courts might accept a case, but obviously have no power to enforce their rulings overseas). Empress is a Canadian company but has a fairly sizable U.S. presence which is inside U.S. jurisdiction. I don't know about SOLID's U.S. presence. You may wish to check. -- Eric Lee Green exec@prysm.net From popmail Thu Feb 20 10:01:51 1997 Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 10:05:37 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Linux Business From: Scott Christley Subject: intro Status: RO Hi, I noticed that I lacked an intro, so I figured I better do my part and send one! My name is Scott Christley and I am president of the Portland, Oregon based corporation, NET-Community. We are one of the new breeds of companies that does software development as well as provides support for free software. Our main product line at the moment is GNUstep; however, we have our fingers into many other things as we don't see GNUstep as an end of itself. We are by trade application programs, so GNUstep is just a piece of technology that we utilize to make our programming life easier. NET-Community actually started out a couple of years ago with the intent of writing an Internet-based 3D virtual world. At the time, neither AlphaWorld nor Meridian 59 where even in alpha release, so we knew we were on the leading edge. There was lots of talk about VRML; standards were made; students were pulling out their old MUD code, and the time was very exciting. >From the get-go, we decided to use ObjC as our programming language; it offers the dynamic capability that we needed to simulate dynamic virtual worlds. Thinking about doing the same thing in C++ gave us serious stomach aches, so this made the choice of compilers very easy; GCC was about it. We also searched around for existing ObjC libraries and ran across Andrew McCallum's Objective-C library. It was in 1994 that NeXT and Sun joined together and came up with the OpenStep specification; there was interest in the community about creating a free software implementation of OpenStep (GNUstep), so we decided to help with the effort as it covered many of our needs. This was the start of our serious endeavor into GNUstep development which continues today. GNUstep, however, wasn't everything so we also wrote a 3D graphics library. It is actually an ObjC class hierarchy that provides high-level modelling capability and utilizes an underlying rendering engine. We also acquired a speech synthesis engine and wrote an ObjC class hierarchy to wrap around it. All of this software runs on Windows NT, Windows 95, and Linux; it was our initial plan that the Windows machines would most likely be the clients while Linux would be popular as servers. After a year in the project (two year project in total), we had much of the technology together to actually start working on the virtual world itself when it became reality time for my investor. At this time both AlphaWorld and Meridian 59, who we saw as possible competitors, had alpha releases out and were seriously beefing up in employees. I'm unsure about AlphaWorld, but I know that Meridian was upto about 30 employees. We also wouldn't be coming out in the same season, Meridian made it out by last Christmas; we would be coming out in this upcoming Christmas. So we had to take a serious look of whether we wanted to take the risk of adding a large number of employees. It was our original estimate that we would only need a small core of developers to get the job done, but this didn't seem so reasonable anymore. Anyways the result was that we abandoned the virtual world market; after that initial flush of excitement, we decided that the market just wasn't really there yet. It seems that our prediction is fairly true as 3DO, which bought Meridian 59 awhile back, has cut about 50% of its staff; and AlphaWorld has also cut about 50% of its staff (~30 employees). So these companies aren't seeing the revenue streams that they expect for large scale deployment. I should note that Chaco is doing well, but they never had venture capital and have been very conservative about their growth. The result of abandoning the virtual world market meant that we either close down shop or attempt to put all of this technology to good use. We obviously decide towards the later, so we produced a CD-ROM in August 1996. The results of CD sales has produced some interesting observations. * Software is definitely a global market; 50% of our sales are to international customers. * Many companies who originally wrote software for or worked with NeXTSTEP where open to the idea that GNUstep could be a potential benefit to them. So we decided to continue the company but focus on a different market; develop free software and provide support contracts for individuals and companies. We also saw Linux as new emerging market with a serious need for applications; if GNUstep could become the "premier" or "desired" high-level GUI development tool for all of Linux, then we would guarantee the success and longevity of the GNUstep technology. But as I stated, we realize that GNUstep isn't an end to itself (unlike how GCC and the compiler tools maybe for Cygnus), so we are making serious contacts with companies to bring software that can play mission critical roles into our folds. In some cases, we will write the software ourselves and in others we are licensing the software. Here is the currently released software we explicitly develop and support. GCC (mainly dealing with Objective-C support) Windows32 API Library Display Ghostscript System GNUstep Base Library GNUstep GUI Library GNUstep X/DPS GUI Backend GNUstep Database Library GNUstep Interface Modeller MediaBook Win32 GUI Backend MediaBook 3D Graphics Library MediaBook Speech Synthesis Library MediaBook Random Number Library This is software that is in design stages. Financial/Accounting software General Ledger Payroll AP Purchasing etc etc A whole suite of GNUstep user apps including a free software dictionary app. This is software we are negotiating for reseller contracts. Paper document management system. This is an existing NeXTSTEP app that will be ported. Everything from scanning, OCR, routing, mark-up capability, form entry, faxing, archiving, indexing. It's a great piece of software and something that can be packaged up into a complete system: Linux box, software, fax, scanner. Plus storage options like CD writers, optical storage, etc. We will be looking for VARs for this. Enterprise wide web reporting tool. This is also an existing NeXTSTEP app. This allows a company to have a single reporting tool that brings together all of their distributed databases into a single virtual database; it handles practically all database types from standard SQL RDMS, to Dbase files, to flat files. Reports can be generated and viewed from your favorite browser, or the report can be send to the printer for a hard copy. It comes a with full API that allows custom programs to access and generate reports. We will provide installation, training, customization, and support. Ok so I hope I didn't bore you or sound too much like a marketing brochure. We are definitely interested in any and all software/support partnerships so feel free to get in touch with me. cheers Scott ps: I still hold my dream of making a virtual world; maybe somebody will grab all of the technology together and make something cool! From popmail Thu Feb 20 10:05:34 1997 Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 12:16:55 -0800 (PST) From: Dwight Johnson To: carlier@iguana.be cc: Linux-Business Subject: Re: linux-biz now has 229 members. Many new. (Was Re: ** Reply to...) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO On Wed, 19 Feb 1997, Kris Carlier wrote: > In my spare time (huh ?) I also (used to) write for a couple of > Belgian computer magazines. Beleive me, writing about linux and related > software is easy. not ! (at least, writing may be fun, but convincing the > editor in chief to publish...) Don't quit! Always send a query letter first and tell the magazine what you want to write about. Linux got a lot of good press last year (you can point out some examples in your query letter) and magazines are going to print a lot more Linux articles this year than last. Dwight From popmail Thu Feb 20 10:05:34 1997 Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 08:12:56 +1100 (EST) From: Robert Hart To: Hansel Kwok cc: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Re: Packaged vs. .tgz software MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO On Wed, 19 Feb 1997, Hansel Kwok wrote: > Unfortunatelly, I found that RedHat 4 was a bit disappointed... many > basic configurations were incorrect. Care to enumerate these please? I found 4.1 pretty clean... > I think that package manager is a good ideas for standard system > softwares, but for local applications (like INN and TRN to name a few) > I prefer to compile it from scratch so that I can make it to do what I > want it to do and to reside at the place I want it to reside. :) I have to agree that some software will require recompilation to provide the exact features that are needed. However, the Red Hat phiilosophy is to provide a basic, secure but working installation as far as is possible 'out of the box'. This means that, after installation Apache and sendmail config files may require some minor effort (but possibly none) to have working servers. I nearly alwys end up creating a new sendmail.cf from scratch (using m4) and recompile Apache to get the mix of modules right. That said, recompiling software on Red Hat is really easy - install the source rpm (on the CD set) and then use rpm iteslf to install the sources and patch them. The edit the config file(s) and recompile... Robert Hart hartr@interweft.com.au Voice: +61 (0)3 9735 3586 http://www.interweft.com.au/ InterWeft, 35 Summit Road, Lilydale, Victoria 3140, Australia IT, data and voice networking Strategic IT business planning Internet planning, implementation, security and configuration From popmail Fri Feb 21 09:54:00 1997 Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 00:12:49 -0300 (EST) From: Jose Carlos Benfati To: Linux-Business Subject: RE: databases on linux MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Status: RO On Wed, 19 Feb 1997, Björn Elenfors wrote: > All "big" databases (Oracle, Informix, Sybase and others) offer > transaction control. > > There is also a bunch of products called Transaction Managers which > control transactions over several databases, even distributed over > several computer and platforms. > > The only one I've got experience with is Tuxedo from Bea Systems (other > products are Encina and Top-End), which uses an open standard called XA > to interface with the DBMS'. > > Does anyone know if any Linux-based DBMS have good transaction control > (Postgres?) or even if there is something similar to a transaction > manager for Linux/UNIX, preferably free? > I don't know of any transaction manager for Linux, but I suspect that encina would not be a difficult port. It is based on DCE, that (as I last heard) is available in source code. DCE in turn is based on pthreads, and that reminds me of asking what is and how good it is the best pthreads implementation for linux? Now, the new version of Encina is C++ based, so there will (almost certainly) be c++ problems if gcc is used (not that gcc is not good, just that the different btween c++ compilers are far greater than among ANSI C compilers). Ah, I almost forgot, Transarc needs to be convinced to do the port. :-) PS: encina uses XA interface too. we would then need also to port a database with XA interface to Linux, or add an XA interface to an already Linux-available database... From popmail Thu Feb 27 18:05:56 1997 Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 10:36:54 +0100 (MET) From: Anders Wass To: Leif Erlingsson , lgt@init.se, lennart@init.se, jarkko@enea.se Subject: Another one bites the dust... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Status: RO Originator of Linux system joins Transmeta in Santa Clara Published Wednesday, February 26, 1997, in the San Jose Mercury News Originator of Linux system joins Transmeta in Santa Clara BY DAN GILLMOR Mercury News Computing Editor Silicon Valley has captured a computing legend -- at least for now. Linus Torvalds, the originator and principal architect of the Linux operating system run by an estimated 2 million computer users worldwide, has moved to the valley from his native Finland. He's joined Transmeta Corp., a start-up chip-design company in Santa Clara, where he'll work part time. He'll also continue to head up Linux development. Having recently completed his master's degree at the University of Helsinki, Torvalds ``didn't have any huge reason to stay'' in Finland, he said Tuesday. ``When I got this offer, I said yes.'' Perhaps more than any other such venture, Linux has shown the power and reach of the global Internet, the worldwide network of computer networks, where Linux was spawned and from which it draws its essential strength. Led by Torvalds, programmers in many countries have contributed key pieces of Linux. The 27-year-old programmer started the pioneering project in 1990 when he was an undergraduate in Helsinki. Linux, a variant of the Unix operating system, is freely available on the Internet and has won wide plaudits for its quality and utility. Torvalds' move to the United States means he won't have to travel far in March when he receives an award at the annual trade show held by UniForum, a Unix-oriented trade organization, in San Francisco. Just getting settled at his new home and job, Torvalds said he's particularly enjoying one major change from Finland: ``I can walk around in a T-shirt in the middle of February.'' From leif@lege.com Sat Mar 1 11:16:33 1997 Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 11:16:28 +0100 (MET) From: Leif Erlingsson To: linux-biz-newmembers@lege.com Subject: WELCOME TO linux-biz@lege.com, SORRY FOR THE DELAY! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- I have *still* not gotten my butt moved to fully automate the administration of the list, but will work on that very shortly now, using SmartList. You are the latest bunch to join, and this time I have waited inexcusably long with subscribing you'all, the oldest subscriber is more than a week old... To make up for this, I'll try re-sending some of the mail that came in on the list the last couple of weeks. SAVE THIS MAIL FOR THE FUTURE: ========================================================================== Here's the subscription/unsubscription procedure: Write to linux-biz-request@lege.com ( Exactly as spelled, some people write to linuz-biz-request@lege.com or to linux-bix-request@lege.com, or linuz-biz@lege.com, or even to linus-bis@lege.com. These are all wrong. The only correct request address is linux-biz-request@lege.com. ***Don't misspell***!!! ) Make *SURE* the subject line reads (the body is ignored): subscribe ***YOUR***EMail linux-biz@lege.com Example: subscribe verysmart@canread.com linux-biz@lege.com When it is time to unsubscribe, note that the spelling of subscribe and unsubscribe differ by two letters only. All else is the same, so since You are intelligent people, You figure it out! Let me repeat ONE MORE TIME: The body of the mail is ignored. The Subject is important. (I know, I know, it's usually the other way around, but I want Subject lines to be meaningful!) And *ONE MORE TIME* ... WRITE *REQUESTS* TO THE -request ADDRESS; linux-biz-request@lege.com == Leif Erlingsson http://www.lege.com +46 8 604-0995 FAX +46 8 605-2551 pgp -kvc leif@lege.com DB 47 2F B1 F8 6B E5 92 7A 97 5C C8 7E 62 CA 7C Stockholm, Sweden, Tellus, Milky Way, Gods Universe. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: latin1 iQCVAgUBMxgB/Q0882B94nEhAQFEkQP+JyaQUxhB/eqzVxUVaSU9pSQILCOCu0N1 a3g1qvA6/mlCIHgp2xeFTdmP73eE5z7fkQmTQFZhbVAVBblZlPYX6U/aIITj9tib UYJx0m0jU2wp+r90XUtTc/kukdyi8S1i43e+0hZsBIsetOylsCUB0BI6GSeH+IKW uTd5SDi64bc= =cpko -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Please contact for Public Key, if you don't have it. ID: 1024/7DE27121 1996/08/17 Leif Erlingsson From popmail Fri Mar 7 09:04:15 1997 Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 08:39:06 +0100 (MET) From: Leif Erlingsson To: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Just a test... Has been very quiet on linux-biz a while... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Just a test... Has been very quiet on linux-biz a while... == Leif Erlingsson http://www.lege.com +46 8 604-0995 FAX +46 8 605-2551 pgp -kvc leif@lege.com DB 47 2F B1 F8 6B E5 92 7A 97 5C C8 7E 62 CA 7C Stockholm, Sweden, Tellus, Milky Way, Gods Universe. From popmail Fri Mar 7 22:09:08 1997 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rn_Elenfors?= To: "'Leif Erlingsson'" , "'linux-biz@lege.com'" Subject: RE: Just a test... Has been very quiet on linux-biz a while... Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 08:51:22 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Status: RO Well... I was quite interested in the Signum Support call for international partners. Could we please have a follow-up? Did you find any Linux support companies outside of Sweden/Europe? /Björn >-----Original Message----- >From: Leif Erlingsson [SMTP:leif@lege.com] >Sent: den 7 mars 1997 08.39 >To: linux-biz@lege.com >Subject: Just a test... Has been very quiet on linux-biz a while... > >Just a test... Has been very quiet on linux-biz a while... > > >== Leif Erlingsson http://www.lege.com +46 8 604-0995 FAX +46 8 >605-2551 > pgp -kvc leif@lege.com DB 47 2F B1 F8 6B E5 92 7A 97 5C C8 7E 62 CA >7C > Stockholm, Sweden, Tellus, Milky Way, Gods Universe. > > From popmail Fri Mar 7 22:10:36 1997 Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 10:33:41 +0200 (SAT) From: Dr Evan Summers To: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Re: Just a test... Has been very quiet on linux-biz a while... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO > Just a test... Has been very quiet on linux-biz a while... Yes, it has! Anybody using this Solid RDBMS advertised on the back cover of LJ? ---------------------------------------------------------------|-----|-- Evan Summers, PhD Tel +27 82 900-8632 Symphony /|\ /|\ Internet systems integration http://sr.co.za Research { } { } Johannesburg, South Africa mailto:evan@sr.co.za (Pty)Ltd {___} {___} From popmail Sun Mar 9 21:05:57 1997 From: Andycsckp@aol.com Date: Sun, 9 Mar 1997 13:40:15 -0500 (EST) To: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: It is quiet Status: O Linux is indeed quite.. I was using windows for the last few weeks... Andy From popmail Sun Mar 9 23:00:57 1997 Date: Sun, 9 Mar 1997 15:31:07 -0500 (EST) From: Don Marti To: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Public web browser MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O Since the last couple messages on this list have been about how few messages there have been, I thought I would post something. I have written a Mini-HOWTO on what I have found to be an excellent business application for Linux -- the public web browsing station. The Mini-HOWTO contains configuration files for a "guest" account that should be able to broswe using Netscape Navigator and not much else. If you use Linux for this, it is difficult for bozos to trash the system when you're not looking (unless you let them at the floppy drive and reset button without changing the system boot order and passwording the CMOS setup.) All the mouse buttons do the same thing, all the links stay blue, and the menu bar is out of sight. Hope the idea will be useful for somebody. The Public Web Browser Mini-HOWTO is now available on the LDP site (http://sunsite.unc.edu/mdw/) or your favorite nearby LDP mirror. Don Marti | Agdia | http://www.agdia.com dmarti@agdia.com | Elkhart, Indiana, USA | 219-264-2014 From popmail Tue Mar 11 01:53:53 1997 Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 10:54:50 -0800 (PST) From: Allen Francom To: Dr Evan Summers cc: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Re: Just a test... Has been very quiet [re: Solid RDBMS] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O Using it a bit. Did an evaluation. Simple, effective, solid. Lobbied with Solidtech to release a version free to the Linux community. They said, OK ! I believe March 15th you can get a free copy for personal use. There is ODBC available that works well, I ran it from Delphi. Somebody is making a Perl interface, etc., Also have Empress. Very robust in comparison, but more complicated to install and maintain. THX -AEF On Fri, 7 Mar 1997, Dr Evan Summers wrote: > > > > Just a test... Has been very quiet on linux-biz a while... > > Yes, it has! > > Anybody using this Solid RDBMS advertised on the back cover of LJ? > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------|-----|-- > Evan Summers, PhD Tel +27 82 900-8632 Symphony /|\ /|\ > Internet systems integration http://sr.co.za Research { } { } > Johannesburg, South Africa mailto:evan@sr.co.za (Pty)Ltd {___} {___} > From popmail Tue Mar 11 01:56:54 1997 Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 13:59:07 -0800 (PST) From: Allen Francom To: Michael Dillon cc: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Re: Just a test... Has been very quiet [re: Solid RDBMS] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O Empress is more complicated and more robust. Solid is simple, easy, and effective. Empress has 3 different API's that are high level, medium, and low level access to the data engine. High level being SQL. Solid has just one API that is traditional embedded SQL for C/C++. ( Forgot to mention ODBC works just fine, if you call it an API... ) Solid is solid and easy to manage. I've heard that it is faster than Empress also. The rumor had it mSQL was fastest and least robust, Solid is next, and Empress was slowest but most robust. Both Solid and Empress are Multi-Platform. Solid appears to have been specifically designed with portability in mind. Empress has excellent documentation. Solid is less expensive than Empress. Empress has the 3 API's, Perl, 4GL, Report writer, and WWW toolkit to its advantage. THX -AEF On Mon, 10 Mar 1997, Michael Dillon wrote: > On Mon, 10 Mar 1997, Allen Francom wrote: > > > Also have Empress. Very robust in comparison, but more complicated to > > install and maintain. > > Which one is more complicated? > > Which one is more robust? > > Michael Dillon - Internet & ISP Consulting > Memra Software Inc. - Fax: +1-250-546-3049 > http://www.memra.com - E-mail: michael@memra.com > From popmail Tue Mar 11 01:57:10 1997 Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 13:23:52 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Dillon To: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Re: Just a test... Has been very quiet [re: Solid RDBMS] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O On Mon, 10 Mar 1997, Allen Francom wrote: > Also have Empress. Very robust in comparison, but more complicated to > install and maintain. Which one is more complicated? Which one is more robust? Michael Dillon - Internet & ISP Consulting Memra Software Inc. - Fax: +1-250-546-3049 http://www.memra.com - E-mail: michael@memra.com From popmail Tue Mar 11 02:13:43 1997 Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 18:53:05 -0500 (EST) From: Elliot Lee To: Michael Dillon cc: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Re: Just a test... Has been very quiet [re: Solid RDBMS] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O On Mon, 10 Mar 1997, Michael Dillon wrote: > On Mon, 10 Mar 1997, Allen Francom wrote: > > > Also have Empress. Very robust in comparison, but more complicated to > > install and maintain. > > Which one is more complicated? > > Which one is more robust? Having gotten in on this thread rather late, I'm not sure what you're comparing Empress to, but: - www.inter-soft.com has a database called 'Essentia' which sounds very nice (and it is avail on Linux, they have an rpm even). - I'm playing with PostgreSQL in hopes of using it on an upcoming makeover of the Red Hat web site. The more I use it, the more I like it. It has transactions and all that other big-league stuff, and its O-O and large-object features let you do some *very* nice things. Give it a try. (I'm planning on doing some testing as to how much data postgresql can handle - I've had problems with mSQL and large databases. Will report back to list if needed.) Hope this helps, -- Elliot Lee http://www.redhat.com/ http://www.linuxexpo.org/ From popmail Tue Mar 11 02:13:57 1997 Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 16:23:44 -0800 (PST) From: Allen Francom To: Elliot Lee cc: Michael Dillon , linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Re: Just a test... Has been very quiet [re: Solid RDBMS] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O Essentia ? Hmn... Well, I'm interested in things that can support ODBC so that Windows apps can access servers on Linux. I know that both Empress and Solid Server can do this just fine. I've heard that ODBC for Postgres is being developed. Do you have more to add about such ? THX -AEF On Mon, 10 Mar 1997, Elliot Lee wrote: > On Mon, 10 Mar 1997, Michael Dillon wrote: > > > On Mon, 10 Mar 1997, Allen Francom wrote: > > > > > Also have Empress. Very robust in comparison, but more complicated to > > > install and maintain. > > > > Which one is more complicated? > > > > Which one is more robust? > > Having gotten in on this thread rather late, I'm not sure what you're > comparing Empress to, but: > > - www.inter-soft.com has a database called 'Essentia' which sounds very > nice (and it is avail on Linux, they have an rpm even). > > - I'm playing with PostgreSQL in hopes of using it on an upcoming > makeover of the Red Hat web site. The more I use it, the more I like it. > It has transactions and all that other big-league stuff, and its O-O and > large-object features let you do some *very* nice things. Give it a try. > (I'm planning on doing some testing as to how much data postgresql can > handle - I've had problems with mSQL and large databases. Will report back > to list if needed.) > > Hope this helps, > -- Elliot Lee > http://www.redhat.com/ http://www.linuxexpo.org/ > From popmail Tue Mar 11 19:55:55 1997 Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 17:04:05 +1100 (EST) From: Robert Hart To: Linux Business Discussion Group Subject: Oracle and LINUX (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O Hi I thought I would foward a reply I received from Oracle regarding a query regarding the (eventual) availability of Oracle for Linux... Maybe if we keep up the pressure they will eventually yield... Robert Hart hartr@interweft.com.au Voice: +61 (0)3 9735 3586 http://www.interweft.com.au/ InterWeft, 35 Summit Road, Lilydale, Victoria 3140, Australia IT, data and voice networking Strategic IT business planning Internet planning, implementation, security and configuration ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: 11 Mar 97 14:43:55 +1100 From: Lynne Robinson To: hartr@interweft.com.au Subject: Oracle and LINUX Robert, I have received your request for the status of Oracle on LINUX. My initial investigations do not indicate any plans for a supported Oracle port to LINUX. I am currently awaiting further clarification from our US porting groups and will keep you informed. Regards, ************************************************************************* Lynne Robinson Product Sales tel: +61 3 9209 1625 Oracle Systems (Australia) Pty Ltd fax: +61 3 9699 1259 324 St Kilda Road email: lrobinso.au Melbourne VIC Australia lrobinso@au.oracle.com ************************************************************************* From popmail Tue Mar 11 19:57:44 1997 Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 23:06:11 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Dillon To: Linux Business Discussion Group Subject: Re: Oracle and LINUX (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O On Tue, 11 Mar 1997, Robert Hart wrote: > I thought I would foward a reply I received from Oracle regarding a > query regarding the (eventual) availability of Oracle for Linux... > > Maybe if we keep up the pressure they will eventually yield... Personally I think that pressure would be more successfully applied to Progress http://www.progress.com because there are people already buying the SCO versions of Progress to run them unsupported on Linux. And Progress has publicly stated in the past that one of the main determining factors for which platforms they port to is the ongoing availabaility of an inhouse machine to do the port on and for tech support afterwards. Obviously, if they did a port to RedHat or Caldera then this would be only a small hurdle unlike some of the other platforms they support. Michael Dillon - Internet & ISP Consulting Memra Software Inc. - Fax: +1-250-546-3049 http://www.memra.com - E-mail: michael@memra.com From popmail Tue Mar 11 20:00:10 1997 Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 11:09:36 +0200 (SAT) From: Dr Evan Summers To: Michael Dillon cc: Linux Business Discussion Group Subject: Re: Oracle and LINUX (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O > factors for which platforms they port to is the ongoing availabaility of > an inhouse machine to do the port on and for tech support afterwards. Also the problem with Oracle is that they have a serious partnership with SCO. I'm sure SCO's told them not to even think about porting to Linux... Regards, Evan ---------------------------------------------------------------|-----|-- Evan Summers, PhD Tel +27 82 900-8632 Symphony /|\ /|\ Internet systems integration http://sr.co.za Research { } { } Johannesburg, South Africa mailto:evan@sr.co.za (Pty)Ltd {___} {___} From popmail Tue Mar 11 20:02:30 1997 Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 07:17:28 -0500 From: Paul Anderson Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Linux Business Discussion Group Subject: [Fwd: Re: Oracle and LINUX (fwd)] Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O Message-ID: <33254D3F.3359@agapesystems.com> Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 07:17:03 -0500 From: Paul Anderson Organization: Agape Information Systems X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; OSF1 V4.0 alpha) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dr Evan Summers Subject: Re: Oracle and LINUX (fwd) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dr Evan Summers wrote: > > > factors for which platforms they port to is the ongoing availabaility of > > an inhouse machine to do the port on and for tech support afterwards. > > Also the problem with Oracle is that they have a serious partnership with > SCO. I'm sure SCO's told them not to even think about porting to Linux... > > Regards, > > Evan Having done work for Oracle and knowing the company well, I am quite sure that the reason the port doesn't exist is the cost of the OS (Linux) and what they (Oracle) feel the relative worth of their product would be, i.e., sell for, on the aforementioned OS. They are a quinessentially greedy company and probably doubt that this OS would make a revenue stream. They probably feel that people would expect them to give away software or code, because this has been the expectation of the users for everything ported to Linux. By giving away, I mean either for free or for substantially reduced pricing in comparision with other OS's on a similiar platform. If Linux users indicated not only the interest, but also the willingness to pay, you might see the port done. Paul Anderson From popmail Tue Mar 11 20:04:57 1997 From: "Cary B. O'Brien" Subject: Re: Oracle and LINUX (fwd) (and restraint of trade) To: linux-biz@lege.com Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 09:18:51 -0500 (EST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O Dr Summers wrote... > > > factors for which platforms they port to is the ongoing availabaility of > > an inhouse machine to do the port on and for tech support afterwards. > > Also the problem with Oracle is that they have a serious partnership with > SCO. I'm sure SCO's told them not to even think about porting to Linux... > This comes up again and again in the Linux vs the world saga -- Microsoft tells DEC not to help port Linux to Alpha or loose NT support -- SCO tells Oracle not to Port to Linux. (*) I thought that there were 'restraint of trade' laws, at least in the US, that prevented this sort of stuff. -- cary cobrien@access.digex.net (*) Unsubstantiated rumors, of course. Everyone reads comp.os.linux.advocacy, right? From popmail Tue Mar 11 20:05:17 1997 Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 16:03:29 +0100 (MET) From: Kristof Van Damme To: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Re: Oracle and LINUX (fwd) (and restraint of trade) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O On Tue, 11 Mar 1997, Cary B. O'Brien wrote: > This comes up again and again in the Linux vs the world saga -- Microsoft > tells DEC not to help port Linux to Alpha or loose NT support -- SCO > tells Oracle not to Port to Linux. (*) > > I thought that there were 'restraint of trade' laws, at least in > the US, that prevented this sort of stuff. Hm... maybe you're right but on the other hand I think it's pretty obvious that for instance the Anti-Trust laws in the US are a laugh when looking at what Microsoft does and gets away with. BTW: maybe a little late, but thanks to all who replied to my question about databases on linux. All those responses were very helpful. I came to the conclusion I didn't really need Oracle for what I was doing ;-). Plenty of alternatives available. Greetings, Aeneas ---------------------------------------------------------------------- |Kristof Van Damme The Reference NV | |System Administrator http://www.reference.be | |e-mail: aeneas@reference.be Onderstraat 36 | |voice: +32 9 2340536 9000 Gent | |fax: +32 9 2340537 Belgium | |- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - | | On windows, I always felt limited by the software available. | | On unix, I am limited only by my knowledge. | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From popmail Tue Mar 11 20:05:30 1997 Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 10:09:04 -0500 From: Paul Anderson Mime-Version: 1.0 To: "Cary B. O'Brien" Cc: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Re: Oracle and LINUX (fwd) (and restraint of trade) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O Cary B. O'Brien wrote: > > This comes up again and again in the Linux vs the world saga -- Microsoft > tells DEC not to help port Linux to Alpha or loose NT support -- SCO > tells Oracle not to Port to Linux. (*) > > I thought that there were 'restraint of trade' laws, at least in > the US, that prevented this sort of stuff. > > -- cary > cobrien@access.digex.net > These rumors are not so unsustained. BTW, Microsoft owns a large portion of SCO. They now own a large share of Unix and are doing everything possible to shut it down like it did Apple. If you remember Apple did sue Microsoft and won $1 in their suit. It is not legal, but it sure can be profitable. Paul Anderson From popmail Thu Mar 13 12:34:34 1997 Subject: Re: Just a test... Has been very quiet [re: Solid RDBMS] Distribution: local Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 22:36:28 GMT From: Ambrose Li To: linux-biz@lege.com Status: O In article , Elliot Lee wrote: > >Having gotten in on this thread rather late, I'm not sure what you're >comparing Empress to, but: They are comparing Empress to Solid. >- www.inter-soft.com has a database called 'Essentia' which sounds very >nice (and it is avail on Linux, they have an rpm even). I have essentia installed on both my home and work machines. Unfortunately, I still don't know what to do with it. Nothing wrong with the software, actually, though I won't call it easy to configure. (I had a hard time installing the ODBC drivers; the guys at Intersoft were helpful, but I ended up reinstalling Windows to get the driver installed.) I also don't have much time for research these days, which explains why I still don't know what to do with it. -- Ambrose Li. acli@mingpaoxpress.com. Ming Pao Newspapers (Canada) Ltd., EDP department. 1355 Huntingwood Drive, Scarborough, Ontario, M1S 3J1, Canada. Voice +1 416 321 0088 x272 Fax +1 416 321 9663. My favourite OS has yet no typographic identity; but I would rather use Garamond than Franklin Gothic From popmail Thu Mar 13 12:38:37 1997 To: Allen Francom Cc: Elliot Lee , Michael Dillon , linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Re: Just a test... Has been very quiet [re: Solid RDBMS] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="==_Exmh_-2104617570P"; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 19:36:27 -0800 From: Jim Pick Status: O --==_Exmh_-2104617570P Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > I've heard that ODBC for Postgres is being developed. Do you have > more to add about such ? > > THX > -AEF Check out PostODBC: http://stud1.tuwien.ac.at/~e9025461/ I tried an earlier version -- it was difficult to get working (security etc.) but it did work. Unfortunately, the showstopper for me was that it didn't support date types. The latest version is supposed to support dates, and it has a new developer, so maybe development will proceed more quickly. I think I'll try it out again in a week or two. Cheers, - Jim --==_Exmh_-2104617570P Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- Version: 2.6.3 iQB1AwUBMyYkzn59sdLqNNqRAQELVAL/dilxex1HtP2OvxcEztsxXc7/N8F2Tp+9 dO+G0w2+EIpaApvlbmB6MOBDNOYNBaoonj/v71lcKWOw+fJ2jxhlqtX2mo4YFym6 MiXU3B6fBsqvlAwTBEgKz7Ej4GHElhEV =83XT -----END PGP MESSAGE----- --==_Exmh_-2104617570P-- From popmail Thu Mar 13 12:38:45 1997 To: Paul Anderson Cc: "Cary B. O'Brien" , linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Re: Oracle and LINUX (fwd) (and restraint of trade) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="==_Exmh_-2095873296P"; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 19:43:28 -0800 From: Jim Pick Status: O --==_Exmh_-2095873296P Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > These rumors are not so unsustained. BTW, Microsoft owns a large > portion of SCO. They now own a large share of Unix and are doing > everything possible to shut it down like it did Apple. If you remember > Apple did sue Microsoft and won $1 in their suit. It is not legal, but > it sure can be profitable. > > Paul Anderson But, DCOM is coming out soon for Linux, and I believe Microsoft is going to release Internet Explorer to run on Linux (they can't stand loosing any market share to Netscape). They are also building some directory services stuff in Java, and doing a port of Office to Java. So, pretty soon, a fairly substantial amount of software from Microsoft will be running on Linux. Isn't life grand. :-) Cheers, - Jim --==_Exmh_-2095873296P Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- Version: 2.6.3 iQB1AwUBMyYmc359sdLqNNqRAQHqoQL/byGx4X6A2BBeMgMFpMglXDpb3+YsrKiB yDQJarn68n5Yx59VvlEvRbJ2aQBbiC0AFIbz0dWGX+nTiVI16RpJ5N5CU4+9KMgm LRWjse/FFxvBI2v9GnvTUPclDnW2ycuB =jVEt -----END PGP MESSAGE----- --==_Exmh_-2095873296P-- From popmail Thu Mar 13 12:39:56 1997 Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 15:17:45 +1100 (EST) From: Robert Hart To: Jim Pick cc: Paul Anderson , "Cary B. O'Brien" , linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Re: Oracle and LINUX (fwd) (and restraint of trade) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O On Tue, 11 Mar 1997, Jim Pick wrote: > They are also building some directory > services stuff in Java, and doing a port of Office to Java. Now that *is* interesting! Does anyone have a url to info on the Java port? Robert Hart hartr@interweft.com.au Voice: +61 (0)3 9735 3586 http://www.interweft.com.au/ InterWeft, 35 Summit Road, Lilydale, Victoria 3140, Australia IT, data and voice networking Strategic IT business planning Internet planning, implementation, security and configuration From popmail Thu Mar 13 12:41:16 1997 Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 20:38:57 -0800 (PST) From: Keith Dart To: Robert Hart cc: Jim Pick , Paul Anderson , "Cary B. O'Brien" , linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Re: Oracle and LINUX (fwd) (and restraint of trade) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O On Wed, 12 Mar 1997, Robert Hart wrote: > On Tue, 11 Mar 1997, Jim Pick wrote: > > > They are also building some directory > > services stuff in Java, and doing a port of Office to Java. > > Now that *is* interesting! Does anyone have a url to info on the Java > port? Now I heard (read) that they are not talking about it, and the source said the the Java port is just a contingency port, so MS will be ready in case Java and NC's really take off. If Java and NC's don't happen, then you won't see a Java port of Office from MS. ============================================================================ Keith Dart, Network Systems Engineer email: kdart@ins.com International Network Services Current client: kdart@cisco.com Cisco Systems, Access Business Unit pager: +1.800.467.1467 Access DevTest/Solution Testing phone: +1.408.527.1391 fax: +1.408.527.3778 =--------------------------------------------------------------------------- Linux: Computing without limits. ============================================================================ From popmail Thu Mar 13 12:59:36 1997 From: PacNeil@aol.com Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 13:13:08 -0500 (EST) To: andersop@agapesystems.com cc: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Re: Oracle and LINUX (fwd) (and restraint of trade) Status: O In a message dated 97-03-11 14:45:39 EST, you write: << These rumors are not so unsustained. BTW, Microsoft owns a large portion of SCO. They now own a large share of Unix and are doing everything possible to shut it down like it did Apple. >> The most recent figures I heard, were that Microsoft owned 15% of SCO. I don't know if that's a "large" portion of SCO, or not. I recently heard a unsubstantiated rumor, that Microsoft was going to incorporate some or all of the Unix kernal, in a future release of NT. Microsoft is IMHO a predatory company, that will steal any technology from any company, that it feels will advance it's nearly monopolistic control of the computer software industry. Neil Schneider From popmail Thu Mar 13 13:00:49 1997 Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 10:28:00 -0800 (PST) From: Allen Francom To: Jim Pick cc: Paul Anderson , "Cary B. O'Brien" , linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Re: Oracle and LINUX (fwd) (and restraint of trade) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O On Tue, 11 Mar 1997, Jim Pick wrote: > > > These rumors are not so unsustained. BTW, Microsoft owns a large > > portion of SCO. They now own a large share of Unix and are doing > > (trim) > > Paul Anderson > > But, DCOM is coming out soon for Linux, and I believe Microsoft is going > to release Internet Explorer to run on Linux (they can't stand loosing > any market share to Netscape). They are also building some directory > services stuff in Java, and doing a port of Office to Java. > - Jim MS owns part of SCO ? Hmn... Does anyone out there have any sort of explanation why companies who have had the opportunity to make a good strategic stand against the tidal wave of MS, have instead been bozo's ? For example: Why wasn't there ever a Delphi for OS/2 ? Is IBM just not smart ? Is noone there accountable for such oversight ? Does MS own Borland too ? You would think a few million would be worth it to have a language that could make your operating system useful and accessible to existing developers... :) And Novell had some good starts... But failed on the follow-through. I just get really frustrated seeing all the potential in so many different companies and MS is the only one that has their act together. There's a lot I don't like about MS, but they have excellent strategy, excellent user interface standards, and it seems like the whole company, whether or not there is any real skill in there, they're at least all marching to the same beat. Slow and steady is winning the race for MS. Amperage, not voltage. In the long term, The only other entity I see that has not only MS scale strategy, but incredible skill, is the Linux community. It seems the strategy falls out of common sense, but hey. I get the feeling it might be Microsoft vs. Freeware and everyone else will be dead. Think of it. Linux has its good points, and its technical drawbacks compared to other Unix, but it is always getting better and more powerful. Meanwhile it's like Novell is behaving like Congress, "Ooh, let's try this ! No wait, over here, do this !" in vain attempts to 'win the lottery' of technology. Thoughts ? THX -AEF From popmail Thu Mar 13 13:01:22 1997 Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 21:44:51 +0200 (SAT) From: Daniel Chalef To: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: repercussions of ITAR and SAFE on Linux, Internet and Business MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O Hi all I'm doing a term paper for university on the repercussions of ITAR and the proposed SAFE Acts on software development, the Internet and commerce. As Linux has a great deal to offer commercial clients in terms of the encryption systems available, and the much talked about proposal of encryption technologies within the kernel, how do you guys as businessmen and women feel these enactments effect your competitiveness? Do you see current legislation limiting not only your privacy, but also your ability to compete globally, or are you satisfied that in the interests of domestic security, encryption technology and development should be controlled? Does current legislation effect the development, and eventual marketing, of Linux? I'd appreciate your replies, but in the interests of those not interested, please restrict them to private email. Thanks Daniel -- Daniel Chalef daniel@uunet.co.za UUNET Internet Africa Operations +27 21 6896242 x2231 finger danielc@speedy.iafrica.com for pgp key From popmail Thu Mar 13 13:02:12 1997 Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 15:06:47 -0500 From: Paul Anderson Mime-Version: 1.0 To: PacNeil@aol.com Cc: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Re: Oracle and LINUX (fwd) (and restraint of trade) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O PacNeil@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 97-03-11 14:45:39 EST, you write: > The most recent figures I heard, were that Microsoft owned 15% of SCO. I > don't > know if that's a "large" portion of SCO, or not. > I recently heard a unsubstantiated rumor, that Microsoft was going to > incorporate > some or all of the Unix kernal, in a future release of NT. Microsoft is IMHO > a > predatory company, that will steal any technology from any company, that it > feels > will advance it's nearly monopolistic control of the computer software > industry. > Neil Schneider The figures I have heard show 35% of SCO being owned by Microsoft. Gordon Letwin of Microsoft was the one who wrote most of Xenix for SCO and Microsoft still holds the copyrights to large parts of SCO's Unix OS5. Gordon Letwin tried to steal the Unix gas once before, by writing OS/2. In the late eighties he wrote a book and followed it up with a tour to tell how OS/2 would unseat Unix by 1992. This plan of getting rid of Unix is nothing that is new to Microsoft. BTW, he is still at Microsoft, as far as I know. Paul Anderson From popmail Thu Mar 13 13:02:24 1997 Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 13:32:34 -0700 (MST) From: Idan Shoham To: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: repercussions of ITAR and SAFE on Linux, Internet and Business (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O A good question! I don't know anything about SAFE, but I know what ITAR is about. I don't think it will impact the technology in Linux in any significant way, because crypto technologies are quite freely available anywhere in the world, as it is. I _do_ think that ITAR has a very serious impact on N.A. businesses, however. The cat is out of the bag, so to speak, so everyone wants strong crypto, and can/will get it on demand. ITAR just means that U.S. (and unfortunately also CDN) companies can't meet that demand, so are legally excluded from a lot of international work. The bottom line is that: - ITAR tries to limit the international availability of strong crypto. As such, it's a 100% failure. - ITAR makes no attempt to cripple North American businesses. However, at _this_ it's a big success. It's a wonder that the U.S. voters tolerate legislation imposed unilaterally by their own government to punish their own exporters. -- Idan Shoham, M-Tech idan@m-tech.ab.ca http://www.m-tech.ab.ca ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 21:44:51 +0200 (SAT) From: Daniel Chalef To: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: repercussions of ITAR and SAFE on Linux, Internet and Business Hi all I'm doing a term paper for university on the repercussions of ITAR and the proposed SAFE Acts on software development, the Internet and commerce. As Linux has a great deal to offer commercial clients in terms of the encryption systems available, and the much talked about proposal of encryption technologies within the kernel, how do you guys as businessmen and women feel these enactments effect your competitiveness? Do you see current legislation limiting not only your privacy, but also your ability to compete globally, or are you satisfied that in the interests of domestic security, encryption technology and development should be controlled? Does current legislation effect the development, and eventual marketing, of Linux? I'd appreciate your replies, but in the interests of those not interested, please restrict them to private email. Thanks Daniel -- Daniel Chalef daniel@uunet.co.za UUNET Internet Africa Operations +27 21 6896242 x2231 finger danielc@speedy.iafrica.com for pgp key From popmail Thu Mar 13 13:05:46 1997 Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 14:45:03 -0800 (PST) From: Allen Francom To: Idan Shoham cc: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Re: repercussions of ITAR and SAFE on Linux, Internet and Business (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O On Wed, 12 Mar 1997, Idan Shoham wrote: > - ITAR makes no attempt to cripple North American businesses. > However, at _this_ it's a big success. > > It's a wonder that the U.S. voters tolerate legislation imposed > unilaterally by their own government to punish their own exporters. > > -- Idan Shoham, M-Tech In spite of my rage I'm still just a rat in a cage - Smashing Pumpkins Ever feel like there's so much work to do you don't have time to visit your neigbor, let alone have time to vote ? I feel that way, and it makes my angry that I have little to do with my own government, meanwhile unethical conniving traitors are battling for my tax dollars, and I'm paying them to do it. No, it comes as no surprise that government is tampering with these things without knowing at all what they're doing. Slaves to our lifestyle, we are. How to unite and undo the twisted systems and restore them to honor ? Hmn... Most of the leaders that I've heard about are history... Fundamentally I like Linux because of this very issue. Here is something good, coming from good people, just because. Kinda like having a family. The true personal essence of us all shows forth in efforts like Linux. There will be encryption technology, no matter who says what. Freedom, Freedom, FREEDOM ! I regret that I have only one life to give for my Linux :) THX -AEF ( Don't take me too seriously, I don't want to be flamed. A little serious philosophy and some humor, that's all. Points to ponder... ) Ooh ! One final thought... Why do we need Representatives and Senators if everyone can vote on every issue using modern technology like the telephone ? Total power to the people ! What if everyone could contribute to or participate with their government the way we all contribute to and or participate with Linux ? There. That's nice. THX Again -AEF From popmail Thu Mar 13 13:09:31 1997 Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 14:05:09 +1300 To: idan@m-tech.ab.ca CC: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Re: repercussions of ITAR and SAFE on Linux, Internet and Business (fwd) From: Paul Foley Status: O On Wed, 12 Mar 1997 13:32:34 -0700 (MST), Idan Shoham wrote: I don't know anything about SAFE, but I know what ITAR is about. I ITAR no longer restricts cryptography. Responsibility was passed over to the Dept. of Commerce on the 1st of January. The new rules are called EAR. don't think it will impact the technology in Linux in any significant way, because crypto technologies are quite freely available anywhere in the world, as it is. Agreed. Linus being in the US makes it more difficult to get crypto in the kernel, though [not to mention most of the big distributions (Red Hat, Slackware, Debian) are US-based] I _do_ think that ITAR has a very serious impact on N.A. businesses, however. The cat is out of the bag, so to speak, so everyone wants strong crypto, and can/will get it on demand. ITAR just means that U.S. (and unfortunately also CDN) companies can't meet that demand, so How does it affect Canadian companies? You can't re-export US cryptographic software, but ITAR/EAR never prevented Canadians exporting their own crypto. The US Government does attempt to bully other countries into preventing the export of strong crypto, or requiring GAK (Government Access to Keys -- and, amazingly, several other countries are just falling all over themselves to give the US govt access to their communications!) -- Paul Foley --- PGPmail preferred PGP key ID 0x1CA3386D available from keyservers fingerprint = 4A 76 83 D8 99 BC ED 33 C5 02 81 C9 BF 7A 91 E8 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors and miss. -- Lazarus Long, "Time Enough for Love" From popmail Thu Mar 13 13:11:00 1997 Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 21:09:08 -0700 (MST) From: Idan Shoham To: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Re: repercussions of ITAR and SAFE on Linux, Internet and Business (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O > ITAR no longer restricts cryptography. Responsibility was passed over > to the Dept. of Commerce on the 1st of January. The new rules are > called EAR. Does this change anything, in practice? > Agreed. Linus being in the US makes it more difficult to get crypto > in the kernel, though [not to mention most of the big distributions > (Red Hat, Slackware, Debian) are US-based] True. It means that crypto in the kernel will likely be source code that you download from elsewhere.. Perhaps Australia? That seem to be a more reasonable country.. > How does it affect Canadian companies? You can't re-export US > cryptographic software, but ITAR/EAR never prevented Canadians > exporting their own crypto. Hmm. I was under the impression that Canada was obliged to classify munitions in the same way as the U.S. -- something to do with NORAD, perhaps? I think that the bottom line is that Canadians are subject to the same export controls, but that the Canadian government is much less likely to pursue such a stupid issue than the U.S. government. > The US Government does attempt to bully other countries into > preventing the export of strong crypto, or requiring GAK (Government > Access to Keys -- and, amazingly, several other countries are just > falling all over themselves to give the US govt access to their > communications!) Maybe true, but not really important .. there's nothing stopping the "bad guys" from using strong crypto, since it's freely available on the net. The only people that such laws prevent having strong crypto are not the targets of police and intelligence agencies anyways... This whole business with GAK is silly too -- in practice, anyone who cares for information protection would re-encrypt with strong crypto anyways, regardless of the laws. Oh well, the various governments can play all they like -- the cat's out of the bag, and no matter how hard they try, they can't get it back in! Anyone else have thoughts on this? ;-) Regards, -- Idan From popmail Thu Mar 13 13:15:02 1997 Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 10:19:09 +0200 (SAT) From: Daniel Chalef To: Idan Shoham cc: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Re: repercussions of ITAR and SAFE on Linux, Internet and Business (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O > > Agreed. Linus being in the US makes it more difficult to get crypto > > in the kernel, though [not to mention most of the big distributions > > (Red Hat, Slackware, Debian) are US-based] > > True. It means that crypto in the kernel will likely be source code > that you download from elsewhere.. Perhaps Australia? That seem to > be a more reasonable country.. The lack of freedom to develop the software locally for Linus _does_ hamper the development of Linux. Why should Linus have to work on a machine on the other side of the world? > > The US Government does attempt to bully other countries into > > preventing the export of strong crypto, or requiring GAK (Government > > Access to Keys -- and, amazingly, several other countries are just > > falling all over themselves to give the US govt access to their > > communications!) > > Maybe true, but not really important .. there's nothing stopping the > "bad guys" from using strong crypto, since it's freely available on the > net. The only people that such laws prevent having strong crypto are > not the targets of police and intelligence agencies anyways... This Sounds like gun control, and thats a _whole_ other story <-; Cheers Daniel -- Daniel Chalef daniel@uunet.co.za UUNET Internet Africa Operations +27 21 6896242 x2231 finger danielc@speedy.iafrica.com for pgp key From popmail Thu Mar 13 18:50:59 1997 Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 10:00:14 -0500 (EST) From: Hiren Hindoccha To: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: About SOLID RDBMS Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O I thought this might be of interest to atleast a few people on this list. >Comments: Authenticated sender is >From: "Iko Rein" >Organization: Solid Information Technology Ltd >To: Downloaders.of.SOLID.Server.for.Linux@solidtech.com >Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 17:44:38 +0200 >X-Distribution: Bulk >Subject: FREE SOLID Desktop for Linux >Reply-to: iko.rein@solidtech.com >Priority: normal > > >Dear SOLID Webvisitor, > >You have evaluated SOLID Server for Linux. > >Solid Information Technology Ltd develops and markets SOLID Server - >one of the most compact and care-free database engines in the >marketplace. See http://www.solidtech.com > >********************************************************************* >We are going to give out free single user version of >SOLID Server for Linux. >********************************************************************* > >Would you be interested in providing this software at your web site >for your visitors to download? This would help you in attracting new >visitors to your web site, and keep old visitors coming back. > >There would be no money involved in this - the software is free to >anybody who wishes to download it. In return for scratching our back >in this way, you will receive from us a free SOLID Web Engine >license to be used as a back-end database for your web site. > >The package will be 4 files totalling 4 MB. > >The campaign will start in mid-March. We will select a limited >number of web sites that may provide this service. > >If you are interested please let us (mailto:iko.rein@solidtech.com) >know , and please feel free to forward this message to user groups >or anybody you think should know about this opportunity. > >Kind Regards, >Solid Information Technology LTD > >Iko Rein > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Iko Rein >Solid Information Technology Ltd >Huovitie 3, FIN-00400 Helsinki, Finland >Tel +358 9 477 4730 >Mobile +358 40 5519 358 Fax +358 9 577 242 >mailto:iko.rein@solidtech.com >http://www.solidtech.com > Hiren -------------------------------------------------------- My Go this amn keyboar oesn't have any 's. Hirendra Hindocha an204@cleveland.freenet.edu http://www.dnaco.net/~hiren From popmail Thu Mar 13 18:51:21 1997 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 02:39:31 +1300 To: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Re: repercussions of ITAR and SAFE on Linux, Internet and Business (fwd) From: Paul Foley Status: O On Wed, 12 Mar 1997 21:09:08 -0700 (MST), Idan Shoham wrote: > ITAR no longer restricts cryptography. Responsibility was passed over > to the Dept. of Commerce on the 1st of January. The new rules are > called EAR. Does this change anything, in practice? Very little. It does clarify the rules somewhat -- I think that "40 bits" is now a hard limit, regardless of whether the algorithm is strong or not (So repeated key XOR with a 5 byte key is restricted, AFAICT! Maybe not surprising when you look at the CAVE algorithm for digital cellphones.), but they've added approval to export up to 56 bits (or maybe DES specifically, I'm not sure) if you can convince the USG you plan on implementing GAK by 1999, and unrestricted(?) export if you already have GAK (three companies have already got export permission on 128 bit ciphers...I can't wait to see if anyone's dumb enough to buy them) > Agreed. Linus being in the US makes it more difficult to get crypto > in the kernel, though [not to mention most of the big distributions > (Red Hat, Slackware, Debian) are US-based] True. It means that crypto in the kernel will likely be source code that you download from elsewhere.. Perhaps Australia? That seem to be a more reasonable country.. Current Linux-crypto projects I know about are: IPSEC support by John Ioannidis (http://users.hol.gr/~ji/ipsec) Encryption for the loop device by Ian Goldberg (Somewhere under ftp://idea.sec.dsi.unimi.it/pub/security/crypt/) IPSEC suffers from a lack of documentation, but it's something everyone reading this list should have a serious look at, IMO. > How does it affect Canadian companies? You can't re-export US > cryptographic software, but ITAR/EAR never prevented Canadians > exporting their own crypto. Hmm. I was under the impression that Canada was obliged to classify munitions in the same way as the U.S. -- something to do with NORAD, perhaps? I think that the bottom line is that Canadians are subject to the same export controls, but that the Canadian government is much less likely to pursue such a stupid issue than the U.S. government. There is no such restriction in Canada. Canada only abides by the US ITAR/EAR regulations with respect to software originating in the US. Canada, along with many other countries, is a signatory to something called the Wassenaar Arrangement, which is a follow-on from the old COCOM agreement. [Note that no-one seems to be able to obtain a copy of the actual Arrangement -- gotta love those secret export restrictions!] Peter Gutmann posted an interesting (and somewhat scary) article to sci.crypt a couple of months ago ("The NSA's influence on New Zealand crypto policy"), about his troubles trying to export his cryptlib library from New Zealand, in which he stated that the Canadian government had already determined that it was exportable under the Wassenaar Arrangement. [The NSA and it's NZ puppet, the GCSB, stepped in and prevented the export, however...an export *to the US!!*] Maybe true, but not really important .. there's nothing stopping the "bad guys" from using strong crypto, since it's freely available on the Indeed, there's nothing stopping the "horsemen" using strong crypto. net. The only people that such laws prevent having strong crypto are not the targets of police and intelligence agencies anyways... This Certainly not *police* targets. Some British government official (can't remember his name...Hershey, Herlighy, something like that) said as much in an interview not long ago ("Law Enforcement interests are just a smokescreen"). Intelligence agencies are involved in economic espionage, though, and the obstacles they're putting in the way of strong crypto are right on target there! -- Paul Foley --- PGPmail preferred PGP key ID 0x1CA3386D available from keyservers fingerprint = 4A 76 83 D8 99 BC ED 33 C5 02 81 C9 BF 7A 91 E8 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Confession is good for the soul only in the sense that a tweed coat is good for dandruff. -- Peter de Vries From popmail Thu Mar 13 18:51:59 1997 Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 11:08:03 -0500 (EST) From: Don Marti To: Paul Foley cc: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Re: repercussions of ITAR and SAFE on Linux, Internet and Business (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O On Fri, 14 Mar 1997, Paul Foley wrote: > True. It means that crypto in the kernel will likely be source code > that you download from elsewhere.. Perhaps Australia? That seem to > be a more reasonable country.. That's doesn't necessarily make it safe. From Apache Week a couple months ago (http://www.apacheweek.com/issues/96-12-20#crypto): > Incidentally, the NCSA server used to have 'hooks' in the code to > allow people to add PGP encryption. Despite they fact that this > server never included actual encryption technology, they were made > to remove these hooks by the US government. After this Apache also > removed its similar hooks. Brian Behlendorf, an Apache developer, > comments "No cryptographic source code was ever distributed by the > Apache project. Despite this, the Apache server code was deemed by > the NSA to violate the ITAR.". Don Marti | Agdia | http://www.agdia.com dmarti@agdia.com | Elkhart, Indiana, USA | 219-264-2014 From popmail Thu Mar 13 23:06:29 1997 Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 11:28:49 -0800 (PST) From: Allen Francom To: Paul Foley cc: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Re: repercussions of ITAR and SAFE on Linux, Internet and Business (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O Hi guys, While we're talking about encryption I would just like to mention a really powerful technique that exemplifies why regulations can't matter in reality. Tom Clancy, the famous author of spy books, had a great encryption method whereby you record CD's with background radiation noise from radio telescopes. You give interested parties a copy of the CD. Then you munge data against the noise and only those with an exact copy of the background noise CD can play your tune, so to speak. This is really the oldest trick in the book stated in new terms and directly represents the fundamental principal of encryption. Cypher, and De-Cypher. Granted, this is a logistics problem for generic applications, but the point is, clearly, anyone who wants to be protected for real, will be, and nothing can stop it. The whole issue seems to be to focus the masses at a few select methods that are somewhat breakable if need be. PGP, RSA, etc., There are clearly better stronger methods. The best are the ones that very few even know about. Me, I don't really care. I have yet to send something or provide host services that anyone could give a hoot about. I'd sure feel better if all connections and transfers were secure... I'd rather see the network protocols and infrastructure standardized so that you get "caller-id" on every connection, for real. There may always be a way to hack, but you can sure put the crimp on it, trace the calls, nail the bad-guys. Crime sucks. I know due to the nature of computer systems, routers, and the whole Internet, what I'm suggesting is bad, technologically. Philosophically not so bad, I believe. There has always been an FCC law to the effect that a caller must identify themselves to the answerer if questioned. There's never been a way for the infrastructure to know who's who for real, but there's the law, and the spirit of the law. If you want to be an anonymous caller, that should be okay, but the answering station should be able to say "in that case, nevermind". So, more important in my book is really the infrastructure itself, and, give me leeway, "virtual-authenticated-point-to-point" connecitons. You can trace a phone call to nail an obscene caller, you should be able to do the same with the Internet. You may not be able to figure who, but you should be able to physically pinpoint the origin. (Unix makes this almost impossible, I know. But this is today, what about tomorrow ?) Thoughts ? THX -AEF From popmail Thu Mar 13 23:06:31 1997 Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 12:44:59 -0600 (CST) From: Charlie Hedlin To: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Encryption and ITAR MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O I have been lurking in Linux-biz, and we are not just sitting and putting up with the ITAR regulations. There is actually legislation pending (I am not optimistic that it will pass) that could reform this. For those in this list that do live in the US, give your Senator a call. Lets make our voices heard. Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 16:22:33 -0500 (EST) From: Voters Telecommunications Watch Reply-To: crypto-news@panix.com To: crypto-news@panix.com ======================================================================== PRO-CODE BILL ANNOUNCED TODAY BILL WOULD LIBERATE ENCRYPTION FROM ANTIQUATED COLD-WAR REGULATIONS February 27, 1997 Please widely redistribute this document with this banner intact until March 15, 1997 From the Center for Democracy and Technology (CDT), the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF), and the Voters Telecommunication Watch (VTW) ________________________________________________________________________ CONTENTS The Latest News What You Can Do Now Background On Pro-CODE What's At Stake For More Information / Supporting Organizations ________________________________________________________________________ THE LATEST NEWS Today, a bi-partisan group of seventeen United States Senators, led by Conrad Burns (R-MT) and Patrick Leahy (D-VT), introduced the "Promotion of Commerce Online in the Digital Era (Pro-CODE) Act", a bill designed to promote privacy and security on the Internet by relaxing government controls on encryption technologies. Encryption technologies are the locks and keys of the Information age -- enabling individuals and businesses to protect sensitive information as it is transmitted over the Internet. Pro-CODE aims to enable this by removing some of the regulations that currently prevent Americans from using this technology. A short summary of the bill and background on the encryption policy debate are attached below, along with information on what you can do to help ensure that Congress takes action on this important issue. ________________________________________________________________________ WHAT YOU CAN DO NOW 1. CALL THE Pro-CODE SPONSORS AND THANK THEM FOR THEIR EFFORTS Members of Congress tend to hear from their constituents only when they do something constituents don't like. Today however, several Senators have taken a stand on an issue of critical importance to Internet users. It's crucial that we encourage them with phone calls of support. If you live in any of the states listed below, please take a moment to give these Senators a call. Allard (R-CO) Ashcroft (R-MO) Boxer (D-CA) Brownback (R-KS) Burns (R-MT) Craig (R-ID) Dominici (R-NM) Dorgan (D-ND) Faircloth (R-NC) Grahms (R-MN) Hutchison (R-TX) Inhoffe (R-OK) Kempthorne (R-ID) Leahy (D-VT) Lott (R-MS) Murray (D-WA) Nickles (R-OK) Thomas (R-WY) Wyden (D-OR) Please take a moment to give these Senators a call. You:Senator Mojo's office please! Sen:Hello, Senator Mojo's office! You: SAY I heard that the Senator introduced Pro-CODE to add more privacy on THIS-> the Internet. Please thank the Senator for me and I support efforts to fix antiquated encryption export laws. I live in . Sen:Ok, thanks! 2. ADOPT YOUR LEGISLATOR If you were one of the thousands of people that have adopted their legislator at http://www.crypto.com/, you would have received a personalized letter telling you that your legislator announced his or her sponsorship of Pro-CODE today. These personalized letters contain all the phone numbers you need, and we'll send them to you any time your legislator takes any action that would have a significant impact on the net. The Adopt Your Legislator campaign is the most effective method of mobilizing grass-roots support available today. Since late last year, VTW and CDT have been building a network of thousands of Internet users who are active and engaged in the fight for privacy and security on the Internet. By focusing our efforts on the constituents of specific legislators as well as on the net as a whole, we can ensure that members of Congress know that they have support within their district as well as throughout the Internet community. You can adopt your legislator at http://www.crypto.com/adopt/ ________________________________________________________________________ BACKGROUND ON THE PRO-CODE BILL The Promotion of Commerce Online in the Digital Era (Pro-CODE) Act is similar to a bill introduced by Senators Burns (R-MT) and Leahy (D-VT) last year (then S.1726). Pro-CODE enjoyed broad bi-partisan support in the Senate and was the subject of 3 hearings, including 2 which were cybercast live on the Internet. This year's Pro-CODE bill (no bill number yet available) is designed to encourage the widespread availability of strong, easy-to-use encryption technologies to protect privacy and security on the Internet. Specifically, Pro-CODE would: 1. Encourage the widespread availability of strong privacy and security products by relaxing export controls on encryption technologies that are already available on the mass market or in the public domain. This would include popular programs like Pretty Good Privacy (PGP) and World Wide Web browsers like those made by Netscape and Microsoft. Current US encryption policy restricts export of encryption products with key-lengths of more than 40 bits. A recent study by renowned cryptographers including Whit Diffie (one of the fathers of modern cryptography), Matt Blaze, and others concluded that 40 bits is "woefully inadequate" to protect personal and business communications. Over the last eighteen months, several examples of the weakness of 40-bit encryption have been demonstrated by college students with spare personal computers. 2. Prohibit the federal government from imposing mandatory key-escrow or key-recovery encryption policies on the domestic market and limit the authority of the Secretary of Commerce to set standards for encryption products. 3. Require the Secretary of Commerce to allow the unrestricted export of other encryption technologies if products of similar strength are generally available outside the United States. For more information on the Pro-CODE bill, background information on efforts to pass encryption policy reform legislation last year, and other materials please visit: For more information, see the Encryption Policy Resource Page at http://www.crypto.com/ ________________________________________________________________________ WHAT'S AT STAKE Encryption technologies are the locks and keys of the Information age -- enabling individuals and businesses to protect sensitive information as it is transmitted over the Internet. As more and more individuals and businesses come online, the need for strong, reliable, easy-to-use encryption technologies has become a critical issue to the health and viability of the Net. Current US encryption policy, which limits the strength of encryption products US companies can sell abroad, also limits the availability of strong, easy-to-use encryption technologies in the United States. US hardware and software manufacturers who wish to sell their products on the global market must either conform to US encryption export limits or produce two separate versions of the same product, a costly and complicated alternative. The export controls, which the NSA and FBI argue help to keep strong encryption out of the hands of foreign adversaries, are having the opposite effect. Strong encryption is available abroad, but because of the export limits and the confusion created by nearly four years of debate over US encryption policy, strong, easy-to-use privacy and security technologies are not widely available off the shelf or "on the net" here in the US. Because of this policy problem, US companies are now at a competitive disadvantage in the global marketplace. All of us care about our national security, and no one wants to make it any easier for criminals and terrorists to commit criminal acts. But we must also recognize encryption technologies can also aid law enforcement and protect national security by limiting the threat of industrial espionage and foreign spying. What's at stake in this debate is nothing less than the future of privacy and the fate of the Internet as a secure and trusted medium for commerce, education, and political discourse. ________________________________________________________________________ FOR MORE INFORMATION / SUPPORTING ORGANIZATIONS This alert was brought to you by the Center for Democracy and Technology, the Electronic Frontier Foundation, and the Voters Telecommunications Watch. http://www.cdt.org http://www.eff.org http://www.vtw.org There are many excellent resources online to get up to speed on the crypto issue including the following WWW sites: http://www.crypto.com http://www.privacy.org Please visit them often. Press inquiries should be directed to: Jonah Seiger of CDT at jseiger@cdt.org or +1.202.637.9800 Stanton McCandlish of EFF at mech@eff.org or +1.415.436.9333 Shabbir J. Safdar of VTW at shabbir@vtw.org or +1.917.978.8430 (beeper). ________________________________________________________________________ End alert ======================================================================== From popmail Fri Mar 14 13:43:28 1997 Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 09:53:35 -0800 (PST) From: Dwight Johnson To: Linux-Business Subject: Re: repercussions of ITAR and SAFE on Linux, Internet and Business (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O On Thu, 13 Mar 1997, Don Marti wrote: > On Fri, 14 Mar 1997, Paul Foley wrote: > > > True. It means that crypto in the kernel will likely be source code > > that you download from elsewhere.. Perhaps Australia? That seem to > > be a more reasonable country.. > > That's doesn't necessarily make it safe. From Apache Week a couple > months ago (http://www.apacheweek.com/issues/96-12-20#crypto): > > > Incidentally, the NCSA server used to have 'hooks' in the code to > > allow people to add PGP encryption. Despite they fact that this > > server never included actual encryption technology, they were made > > to remove these hooks by the US government. After this Apache also > > removed its similar hooks. Brian Behlendorf, an Apache developer, > > comments "No cryptographic source code was ever distributed by the > > Apache project. Despite this, the Apache server code was deemed by > > the NSA to violate the ITAR.". Perhaps, then, it will be necessary to have a kernel-crypto HOWTO together with a crypto support kernel patch maintained abroad somewhere. Among other things, the HOWTO can explain how to insert a crypto hook in the kernel code. Here in the US we have laws and we also have the time-honored practice of civil disobedience when those laws don't make sense. That is what seems to be called for here. I don't believe Phil Zimmermann is doing time yet. Dwight From popmail Fri Mar 14 13:44:41 1997 From: WGS News To: linux-biz-request@lege.com Subject: Linux Newsletter Issue #4 Date: Sat, 8 Mar 97 16:25:55 MST Status: O Linux Newsletter: Issue #4 Date: 03/07/97 Table of contents: -So, which "Linux Distribution" or "CD" is the best anyway? -Linus Torvalds scheduled to be presented with major award at UniForum, San Francisco, March 10-14, 1997 also: Volunteers needed -ApplixWare dramatic price decrease -Linux Expo, Research Triangle Park, North Carolina April 4-5 1997 -SoftBank Comdex participation, June 2-5, Help needed -ALE (Atlanta Linux Exposition) right after Comdex, June 6-7, 1997 -Linux International continues to grow, LI Web site wins award -Linux on the space shuttle -Large deployments of Linux -Linux Counter -Corporate users' perception of Linux -AcctOnIt Beta program -Linux Mall, Big News, Bad News, Good News -This month's LinuxMall specials, Video of Linus & More, "Future of Linux" -How to subscribe/unsubscribe to this newsletter == Friday, Feb. 7, 1997 is a day that will long live in infamy here at WorkGroup Solutions, Inc., and the Linux Mall. If you called one of our phone numbers on this day or the day before, it's very important that you read about it. Fortunately there is good news too. More information is provided later in this newsletter along with several new programs being launched by the LinuxMall... a Paying Referral program where you can make money for nothing (well almost nothing), a Dealer Program, a Vendor program, Secure On-line Ordering, Cheaper & Better shipping, Frequent Buyer points, and a dramatically expanded product line. I promise the next newsletter will be smaller unless I am told otherwise by a majority of readers. This one is a very special case. There is a specific location later in the document that says, "PLEASE READ THIS even if you don't read anything else** As long as we are on the topic, let me ask, Would people like the newsletter larger? or smaller and more frequent? or stay just as is: monthly and typically about four to five printed pages? If you have news that you think should be included, I invite submissions, but do not promise to publishing them. -Mark -- -So, which "Linux Distribution" or "CD" is the best anyway? We keep being asked this. How can we fairly answer this question in an unbiased manner? Especially since we sell not only our own Linux Pro, but also the distributions made by everyone else? Why do we even carry the others? Often vendors think it is so that we can say ours is better, but it is not true. We know that the world has room for different philosophies, and no one choice is always right for everyone. We know some people for whom Linux Pro is best, but there are even more people for whom Caldera, Debian, Red Hat, or SlackWare are best. We generally ask a few questions, and then make two or three suggestions in response to how the prospective customer describes themselves, but we leave the final choice of what to buy up to the customer. Each customer might be satisfied with ANY Linux distribution, but which is really best for a particular person? We do not think that the question "which Linux is best" can have an answer, without first asking the potential user what he intends to use it for, and how. Questions we might ask a customer include: -Do you prefer to be on the leading or even bleeding edge? Or is stability the #1 concern. Would you prefer the Linux you choose be older in the interest of thorough testing, providing it still runs the desired software? -Are frequent updates and upgrades for new features in your opinion, an asset or a liability? It is neat to have the latest features if you need them, but one could also spend all their time doing nothing but updating.... for business it just needs to work. Bug fixes are only relevent if the bugs actually affect getting work done with the system. -How do you prefer to be notified of bugs, or do you not care unless you actually run into them? -Do you prefer maximum control, or maximum simplicity, or some compromise between the two. -Is in place upgradability important to you? and the ability to cleanly and easily reverse an upgrade done if problems result? -Do you want popular commercial products included and integrated into the Linux Distribution CD? Or is it more important to be able to copy it, and install it on many systems for free? -Does it matter that there is only one CD with Linux and everything on it well integrated, or are you the type to explore, who wants a big multi-cd set that has everything, including the kitchen sink? Many people never even look at the extra CDs in big sets. These are SOME of the questions we want to be able to ask our customers so that one to two choices will stand out based on matching the Linux vendor's own words and philosophies to the customer's. We would be happy to include additional questions submitted to us, providing they are relatively timeless, and telling. Shortly a message will be sent to each vendor who packages a distribution of Linux, and whose product we carry. We would like Linux vendors make clear their positions on the above questions, as well as recommend to us other questions to ask. We also invite requests for participation by vendors whose products we do not currently carry. We want to know the target user and market for each Linux Distribution is. For whom specifically are THEY the best, and why. Detailed profiles of typical users which potential purchasers can see THEMSELVES in. We will also respond to the questions for our own Linux Pro philosophy which we feel is still unique, but not necessarily better. We will invite comparisons & contrasts, and allow vendors to mention competing products... but will not allow mudslinging. They can state how something else is different, or theirs is better for a particular circumstance, but NOT put down another product. If any vendor comes up with another good question, we will ask the same of all of them. We are more interested in each Linux distribution maker's philosophy, something a person or company can buy into for the long term, than we are in the technical details (although this is interesting too) of each vendor's current release. Once we have everyone's responses we will merge them into a single document and pass it completed back to all the vendors for their further comments or suggestions. We want to create a fair and upbeat document which potential Linux users can read, and use to choose which Linux Distribution is best for THEM. We want them to come away believing that they have made the right choice for the long term. Then we want to make this document publicly available on our Web site, invite the Linux Journal to publish it, Offer it to the LDP, etc. Why are we doing this? We do not want a repeat of the "UNIX wars" happening to the Linux market. There is room for all philosophies & products providing they are clearly spelled out. If any vendor refuses to participate, the document will name the vendor, and the representative who refused. Nothing more. -- -Linus Torvalds scheduled to be presented with major award at UniForum, San Francisco, March 10-14, 1997 also: Volunteers needed UniForum '97 will be held March 10-14, 1997, in San Francisco and The UniForum Association is pleased to announce James Gosling, lead developer of Java, and Linus Torvalds, creator of LINUX, as recipients of this year's UniForum Achievement Award. The awards will be presented in ceremonies at UniForum '97 at the Moscone Center in San Francisco. All registrants of UniForum '97 are invited to attend the award presentation free of charge. The UniForum Award, presented annually since 1983, recognizes individuals or groups whose work has significantly advanced the cause of open systems over time, or has had an immediate and positive impact on the industry with long term ramifications. The UniForum Board of Directors considered a number of nominees for this year's awards, voting unanimously to honor James Gosling and Linus Torvalds for their contributions to the industry. Gosling, a vice president and Fellow at Sun Microsystems, managed the critical work that created the Java language at Sun, and is the lead engineer at JavaSoft for the Java/Hot Java system. The award also celebrates Torvalds' breakthrough work on the LINUX kernel and his pioneering efforts in making his work available at little or no cost to anyone wishing to develop on it. Torvalds has recently moved to the US from Finland where he completed his Masters Degree from the University of Helsinki. He joins the staff at Transmeta, Santa Clara, CA. The award will be presented to Linus Torvalds on Thursday, March 13th, as part of the morning Keynote Session at UniForum '97. On the Trade Show floor the latest products and services from more than 100 exhibitors will be on display, with several specialized technology and vendor pavilions planned including the Linux Pavilion. For complete information on UniForum '97, be sure to visit http://www.UniForum97.com. Attendees can register on-line at this Web site. Information on all SOFTBANK COMDEX events, including UniForum '97, is available at http://www.Comdex.com. Linux International still needs volunteers to help run the Linux Pavilion there. Email to mailto:Comdex@LI.org if you want to help out! -- -ApplixWare mailing & dramatic price decrease This one is a good news / bad news scenario. Good news for anyone who thought as I did that the price of $499 was just too darned high for an Office Suite package (in an age of $199 Microsoft Office), regardless of how good it was. Bad news for WGS in the short term. How so? Well, WGS spent about 90 days developing a mailer for ApplixWare and simultaneously lobbied to reduce the price to $199, or at least to $249. There was no budging. So finally I approved a $50,000 mailing to sell it at $445, the best we could do under the circumstances. The mailing had been on the street for less than 30 days when we got word that the price was being reduced to $199 on the 4.2 developer version (which we now sell at $189), and that it will also be upgraded for free to the 4.3 office version as soon as it was available (March expected). So what is wrong with this? Well, for one thing we had to make up to some people who had paid the higher price the week before the announcement, and all our inventory had to be re-valued. Fortunately our vendor (a very good but apparently somewhat unpredictable company) took responsibility, and we got help with this area. But this was not the worst part. The worst part is that it takes about 3-4 months for a mailing to bear full fruit. When something like this happens, it cuts the life of the mailing short... in other words 50K and a lot of time & effort down the drain. If you have never worked on putting a mailing or a catalog together... you would be very surprised how much time and work it takes. Ordinarily this would not be that big an issue... but WGS has taken quite a number of hard knocks since last summer. We had two major distributors not pay their bills to us, after we shipped them product totaling more than $100,000. But there is more... and I report it later in this newsletter along with telling you why Friday Feb. 7, 1997 will be infamous around here forever... We are hoping the end of the story will be a good one. That the reduced price will generate so many ApplixWare and other products sales to more than make up the losses, and therefore... a happy ending for all concerned. In the meantime, if anyone still responds to the mailing, we deliver ApplixWare at the reduced price (without them having to ask, even if they send a check for $445). Now don't take this wrong. WGS is not about to go out of business, nor are we in trouble. Fortunately a lot of people deal with us honestly every month, and we try to be fair to them in return. This after all is what it is all about. This and showing people what they are missing if they are not using Linux! Freedom or slavery, which do you choose? I guess I am a slave to Linux and my business! :-) If you think that WGS is not spending quite as much money promoting Linux as we once did, you now know why. A business must break even at least. If sales jump and we make more, and keep the bills paid, then we'll fuel the Linux promotion mill, and open the throttle up further. We promote not just ourselves, but all that Linux is: Everyone's products, user groups, and the philosophy of freedom & participation. It is the community, not me, who profits from this promotion. Fortunately, many other good people are involved in the same work. WGS could not accomplish this worldwide effort alone. I am proud to be an instrumental part of Linux International, and CLUE. http://www.LI.org and http://CLUE.denver.co.us Attention Students: Business may be tough, but in a day and age of downsizing... the corporate world is not safe anymore either. What is a person to do? Here's a hint: Educate yourself, to make sure you know more than those around you. Don't take just business OR computer science in school. Combine a trade with a thorough knowledge of computers. Learn how to best apply computers to that trade. This will make you indispensable. I frequently get job offers of $100K to $500K per year or more because this is what I have done in my life. I strongly encourage you to do the same.. One more thing... dare to dream... and follow it. Hard & smart work pays off eventually. Oh, by the way... we are always looking for good full time local support techs, and good sales people. Drop us a resume, income expectations and your goals for the next five years if you like. We don't pay much (yet?), but we do have fun, while learning and accomplishing a lot. -- -Linux Expo, 3rd annual Research Triangle Park, NC, April 4-5 1997 The Linux Expo features two full days of technical talks by 14 leading Linux developers, and the biggest exhibition hall yet with lots of companies showing the latest Linux products, the First Annual Linux Bowl, installation fest, job fair, food, fun, and juggling! This is the one of the largest gatherings of like-minded Linux users this year! Here's a unique opportunity to meet in person and debate issues with all those Linux hackers and developers you've heard of, or debated with on the net. Whether you just want to meet the people responsible for your favorite technology, or whether you are looking for valuable insights into doing business or software development the Linux way, this is a exceptional opportunity. While the conference is largely technical and features leading developers, you will also be able to meet with leading commercial vendors. This event is a great opportunity to learn more about Linux. Whether you need to learn more about the specifics of recompiling the kernel to achieve symmetrical multiprocessing, or just find out how to configure multi-user Doom, this is the event for you. Don't miss this chance to learn from the leading Linux experts! There will be an Install Fest (Did I coin that term? I hadn't seen it used before I wrote it in a CLUE newsletter well over a year ago) at which you can get expert help with installation problems. There will be a Linux Show with the latest Linux hardware, components, and systems vendors, to software application, tools, and demonstrations from the vendors. Help on installation, advice on marketing products, even a job fair featuring Linux and UNIX opportunities. There will be balloons, jugglers, speakers and hanging out. This is going to be one fun weekend you don't want to miss! Admission to the Expo is free. There will also be technical talks by the masters. This will cost some pennies. For more information visit http://www.LinuxExpo.org -- -SoftBank Comdex participation, June 2-5, Help needed The Spring Comdex is in Atlanta, Georgia, June 2-5, 1997 The Fall Comdex is in Las Vegas Nevada, November 17-21, 1997 If you are a vendor of anything at all related to Linux, you will want to be part of the Linux International Pavilion at both Spring and Fall Comdex shows. Contact SoftBank Comdex at http://www.Comdex.com. Bill Gates will be keynoting there at the spring show. If we can get enough draw and participation maybe we can get Linus invited as a keynoter in future years! With Linux now having 6 million estimated users worldwide in addition to getting top awards from both BYTE and InfoWorld magazines, and all the other press it should only be a matter of time. We will be asking for volunteers for the Linux International Pavilion & Booth about a month before each show, but you can get your message indicating interest in helping at any COMDEX show to mailto:Comdex@li.org at any time. Please be sure to let us know which show you want to help with! Let your voice be heard, help out! -- -ALE (Atlanta Linux Exposition) right after Comdex, June 6-7, 1997 The Atlanta Linux User's Group (ALUG) has chosen the Inforum building for its Weekend Linux Event directly after Spring Comdex. It is three blocks away from the World Congress Center, and about two blocks from the Olympic Park restaurants. This weekend was chosen so that Vendors and Linux Enthusiasts attending Spring Comdex in Atlanta can easily stay the weekend and attend the ALE too. Linux International will be underwriting the conference. LI will also be sponsoring some ALUG volunteers in our booth during Comdex, to help promote Linux International and its work, and to help promote the ALUG conference after Comdex. ALUG will be managing the vendors special needs, contacting them, designing the layout of the tables, etc. They will be contacting speakers, creating the conference schedule, and pre-registering conference attendees. In addition, ALUG will be doing publicity and promotion of the event, both through the SoftBank group and through local organizations, publications, the Linux Journal, etc. Linux International encourages vendors to support this event by purchasing display tables, supplying speakers, and creating links from their respective web pages. LI also encourages any and all Linux interested parties to plan to attend. This conference will be very inexpensive to attend in any capacity. Contact Information: Vendor Relations. If you wish to display your wares Steve DuChene < mailto:sduchene@mindspring.com > Conference & Speaker Relations. If you wish to make a presentation Chris Farris < mailto:chrisf@cc.gatech.edu > Publicity. If you wish to write an article, or promote the event Steve Lewis < mailto:sglewis@mindspring.com > The web pages will be up soon. -- -Linux International Web Site wins Award, LI continues to grow The Linux Journal selected http://www.LI.org as one of the best resources for Linux users on the Web. They will be displaying a "Recommended!" graphic beside its listing on the Linux Journal Web site at http://www.SSC.com/linux/web.html Congratulations Linux International WebMasters! Linux International also continues to grow. Several new sponsors have joined in the last several months. Following is a list of the current corporate members & sponsors (in order of joining). Sponsoring Corporate Members: WorkGroup Solutions, Inc.; Red Hat Software; Xi Graphics Inc.; Caldera Inc.; Digital Equipment Corporation; Yggdrasil Computing Incorporated; Metro Link; Linux Hardware Solutions, Inc.; InfoMagic, Inc. Corporate Members: Just Logic; Tower Technology Corporation; Linux Journal; H&L Software, Inc.; Quant-X, Sebit Ltd.; Tech-X Consulting, Inc. You may obtain more information about any of them by visiting LI's award winning pages at http://www.LI.org -- -Linux on the space shuttle Debian Linux is going up with an upcoming space shuttle mission. The c.o.l.a message is at http://www.CS.Helsinki.fi/~wirzeniu/linux/cola.archive/1997-02/cola.1997-02-24.014 An easier way is to hit http://www.DejaNews.com and run a search for debian rides space shuttle and then pick the item that was posted to comp.os.linux.announce. By the time you look, you may also have to tell the search to look in the old usenet news archive instead of the current one. This info is also on the Linus / USENIX Video, which begins shipping out this next week (more later in this newsletter). The information was presented during one of the sessions by an audience member involved in the project. On this tape you will also find out how Linux is used by NASA mission control. -- -Large deployments of Linux There is not a lot of information available yet as to large deployments of Linux. I have come across the following item which was sent to me graciously by a reader. Existing Linuxers are an independent lot, numbering apparently about 6 million. It is too bad we cannot get more business people to submit info on their successes. To set the stage: The following conversation is in regard to the fact that Jim Mohr got a lot of good input from my request in an earlier newsletter (Back issues available at http://www.LinuxMall.com/announce.html ) .... but there is still more to be done. The > indented portions are my words, and the un-indented that of my source. >Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 15:46:35 GMT >Subject: Re: Large Deployments of Linux in Business > >As long as we are on this topic, Jim got lots of valuable input, but there >is a glaring lack of "reference sites", namely large deployments of Linux >to solve a "Business" problem or "Strategic" problems within a company that >are referenceable by other companies wishing to do similar deployments. >There were very few "vertical market" applications, such as hotel management, >video or auto store management, etc. where extensive customer deployments >of strategic systems have been done. We know such sites exist, but most >refuse to provide references on the grounds of "strategic advantage" >or on the grounds that their projects have not yet been running long enough >that their attorneys feel comfortable using it as PR. If anyone knows of >such sites who'll talk (especially management types), please step forward. >I know of several such sites that won't talk on the grounds of strategic >advantage. > >One thing we did learn, is that the world abounds with "Linux as a server", >a "Web Server", an "ISP", a "Student System" or as a programming station. Are you aware of a survey being carried out by a group of Linux users who call themselves mclinux (mission critical linux) ? Well, here is one that I found today. It is the preliminary results of the mclinux survey: http://Free.Rmnet.it/linux/results.html (beware: this site is in Italy and is SLOWWWWW from the UK!) But its worth it. It makes interesting reading :) >It was pretty quick for me, fortunately. >I read the entire site. Thank you for pointing it out. It is a great >read for a technical type. But unfortunately I saw little there for >making a "business case" to a management type. Even saw stuff that I >would not dare let a non-techie see until after they had used Linux >for themselves. > >I don't know if you have noticed, but many if not most management types >don't know much technically, confuse easily, and almost universally refuse >to listen to techie types. They used to "Bleed Blue" (Because they >felt safe with "Big Blue", IBM, but now they insist on Microsoft >unless squarely confronted, in a businesslike manner with facts, business >justifications and solid proof (not opinions). The message that came with it (which I've already deleted :-( ), said something about looking for people to write an article about the results ... >We might be able to twist this into more business acceptable material, >but virtually all of it is "Servers" and specifically "Web Servers" >which is a good niche.... but is only a drop in the bucket compared >to the whole potential market that Linux could actually apply to >even now. -- -Linux Counter One very important point is that Linux is not taken as seriously as it should be by the mainstream computer press, or by vendors of computer related items because there are no hard numbers as to the size of the Linux market, or it's demographics. One way you can help is to register yourself with the "Linux Counter", a census, and an attempt to get hard numbers, at http://Domen.Uninett.no/~hta/linux/counter.html Also there was a rather enlightening presentation done by Bob Young, President of Red Hat Software at the USENIX/UseLinux show earlier this year. That session is on the USENIX Video tape and should probably be seen by any vendor considering entering the Linux Marketplace. The numbers are much larger than they seem on the surface. He did a very good presentation using the base "soft" numbers available. He also defined the difference between hard and soft numbers for those that want to know. -- -Corporate users' perception of Linux Following is a message forwarded to me for comment... I have included my response, as it is a very common misconception about Linux. >Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 12:59:40 -0600 (CST) >Subject: Quote about Linux > >I found this at the bottom of someone's mailing-list message. > >> Corporate users want to be able to scream "we are paying for your >> OS so run and give us what we ask", they don't want to have to >> explain to their top managers that Linus had a baby and he could >> not fix the bug in the Linux kernel yesterday. >> -- asuardi@it.oracle.com > >I think this is an interesting perspective on Linux. Right, and a fairly common one which ignores that there are about 100 kernel developers, any of which can make a patch available if needed. They do not have to wait for Linus to get back and fold it into the reference tree in order to fix an emergency problem. What company can offer that? What other OS has had major bugs resolved within hours of discovery? What is more, many major OS use GNU components, including the GNU C compiler. How do they rationalize that? These Corporate users could as easily pay a Linux competent person (or several around the clock), and scream... we are paying your salary, so now go get the patch that fixes this emergency! They'd probably get more for their money. -- -AcctOnIt Beta program For those that are interested, there is a major PC Accounting package available for Beta to run under Linux at ftp://ftp.WGS.com/pub/wgs/acctonit We cannot by contract say which one, but you HAVE heard of it. The entire package will be free to all people who download it for testing during the beta period. After the beta period is over, the product will begin to be sold. All testers may continue to own and use the last version that they downloaded. A problem has been detected so that it will not yet run on Red Hat 4.x, but this should be resolved shortly (C dynamic library issues apparently). -- -Linux Mall, Big News, Bad News, Good News, Before I tell you about Black Friday... I want to give you some really good news about changes at the Linux Shopping Mall. This is a rollout that has been waiting in the wings for quite some time as we developed everything needed. I am happy to finally be able to tell you about it all. =Better Shipping: We have concluded a deal with Airborne Express to ship our orders worldwide. Fed-Ex versus Airborne is like Hertz & Avis. Can't tell the difference in most respects, but Avis is smaller and tries harder. What does this mean to you? Well, if you are in a country other than the USA, you will get very good rates on the price of shipping, and the customs brokerage will be handled easily and quickly by working the delivery company instead of the government. You will still have to pay customs/duty, and the amount of these are impossible to pre-determine, but deliveries will be as fast and as inexpensive as possible. If you are in the United States, the fact that we are using Airborne means quick service, and good prices as well, but will have less impact than Internationally. If a package does not arrive on time, we will be able to quickly and easily track it down with the Airborne "Positive Tracking" system available on their web site. =Dramatically expanded product line: In the last couple of months we have added over a hundred new products to the "Online Shopping Mall" on our Web server. This is showing no signs of slowing down as vendors come out of the woodwork wanting us to carry their products. Our goal is to become THE place where people will know that they can find whatever Linux related items they may want. For more information, http://www.LinuxMall.com/mallidx.html *Note*: All of the following items will be in full swing by the end of March. I had been holding off the newsletter until the electronic signup & processing for all these programs was fully functional on our Web site, but cannot hold it any longer. The Web Site enhancements are currently operational for internal testing by our employees, so I feel comfortable making the announcements anyway. We found a few minor glitches that need to be ironed out before opening the system extensions up for everyone to access. We will make another anouncement when we feel our electronic processing is perfect and bulletproof. In the meantime you can read the information available online about the following programs. =Secure On-line Ordering functional: We have been working on one of the most sophisticated on-line ordering systems that you have ever seen using our own WEBworx product. It should have been be on-line in its first version by the time you read this, and may still be (if not, try again later, it is on the edge of goin on-line). Give it a shot.... the way it works you can build an entire order and then cancel it if you like with no repercussions at all. The order is not final until the end of the ordering process when you hit the special button to make it final. There is still more that we want to do to this system, and we will proceed doing it after we have the first cut on-line. We would love to hear your comments on it. Just hit the "Add" button from any displayed product page to try it! The first time it will ask you to establish an account (done completely online) so that you never have provide your full information again. Establishing an account does *not* commit you to anything. For more information, http://www.LinuxMall.com =Frequent buyer points: The Linux Shopping Mall is now accruing "Frequent Buyer" points. Every dollar you spend with us will accrue a point. Filling out the on-line form to put yourself on our mailing list the first time accrues 100 points. These points will be redeemable for prizes, such as products, and on-line shopping sprees. Details will be announced later, but for now... start accruing those points! For more information, http://www.LinuxMall.com/mallinf.html =Referral program: We are launching a referral program, where you can fill out an on-line form and receive a segment of HTML code that you can put on any web page or other location that you like. If someone uses the button included in this segment of HTML code to come to our shopping mall, and then buys something... WE PAY YOU a commission. No phone calls or other effort is necessary on your part, as everything is handled on-line. For more info, or to sign up, http://www.LinuxMall.com/mallrfr.html =Dealer program: This program allows consultants, value added resellers, computer stores, mass buying corporations and others to use our on-line or printed catalog to buy or sell Linux related items. Discounts (or commissions) are given based on the volume of sales to any given dealer or his/her customers. We are constantly expanding our product line so that anything you or your customers may need can be found at the Linux Shopping Mall, and you can make money with it. For more information, http://www.LinuxMall.com/malldlr.html =Vendor program: This program allows vendors and publishers of Linux Related products to make their wares available to the world through the Linux Shopping Mall. Sell to all our new and prospective customers. It covers all aspects of bringing products to market to answer the question, "So, if I port "XXXXX" to Linux, how and to whom will I sell it?" For more information, http://www.LinuxMall.com/mallvndr.html =User Group Program: This program creates a venue for interaction between the Linux Shopping Mall and user groups worldwide. User groups can help customers everywhere better than we can in many ways, and we wish to support them in this. For more information, http://www.LinuxMall.com/mallugs.html ****** BLACK FRIDAY: Well here it is. Black Friday. I have mentioned it several times now in this newsletter. As if the ApplixWare price drop above and the distributors nailing us was not enough... this was an even tougher nut to deal with in the short term. I saved it for the end, because it is kind of long. I think that our faithful customers & readers deserve to know, even if some people choose to think badly of us for it. I feel it is important to be fair, and share the truth. I want WGS to be a different kind of company one that is honest and straighforward. One that is always fair and helpful, not one that holds up false pretenses as so many companies do, including the ones mentioned below. Saturn claims to be a different kind of car company, and a lot of people like their products and their ways. WGS wants to be a different kind of computer software company. What is it that Arby's says? Different is good? We have a code of ethics to follow here which is more stringent than any other company I have worked at. Anyway ... here goes ... We used to use a fulfillment house named Rocky Mountain SofTrak in Boulder to do our packing and shipping. Then our volume of phone calls became too much for our phone system and staff. We asked if SofTrak could arrange to take simple "orders" calls as they had told us they could when we originally signed up with them. They got another fulfillment house with a substantial call center involved, Fulfillment Plus (FFP). We worked on training FFP for over 6 months. FFP never quite seemed to be able to figure out how to serve our callers despite our continued help (what is so tough about listening to a customer, and taking an order correctly?). Even FFP agreed that they were not doing the best job, but constantly appeared to try even harder than before. I respect this, and like to give people every opportunity. I figure this is why we have so many loyal customers, friends, and vendors that will work with us. FFP did slowly improve, and continued handling more and more calls. We kept working with them, figuring that the costs (including lost customers, misplaced orders, inaccurate information given, etc., just one more week and we'll get it right) in the short run would be worth it in the long run. We would have improved customer service, longer availability hours, and more growth potential over what our staff could immediately do. It is terribly expensive to have the room, the people, the phone facilities and computers to do a really good job on a large scale. Any time we found out a customer had not been treated well or served properly, we went out of our way to make it up to that customer. This is just the way we do things around here. We always published the corporate phone number and made sure that the phone people also knew to give this number to any customers that they did not seem to be able to properly handle, and so customers could know to call another place if things got out of hand. The first thing that went wrong is that FFP & SofTrak did not seem to be able to communicate to get our packages out in a timely and accurate fashion. So we switched ALL operations to FFP, and shortly thereafter SofTrak went out of business. Then FFP quoted us DHL shipping rates for express shipping that looked really good, and turned out (we found out when customers started complaining) to be that DHL picked the packages up, and then dropped them in the US Mail! We put a stop to this in a hurry, but the damage was done, including promoting shipping rates that were not achievable internationally. If you know much about business, you will know also that a phenomenal number of companies big and small use fulfillment houses to take calls, orders, warehouse product, and ship it. Everyone told us this was the right move. And as I said, FFP did keep getting better, however slowly. Then Black Friday, February 7, 1997, I received a call at 11:30 am that I will never forget. It went like this: Cheerfully: "Hi, this is Mel. We need you to bring us a cashier's check and come get your inventory. We are closing our doors at the end of business today." It went downhill from there. The owner, Verna Brown, who also owns and runs an employment service known as "Absolute Employment" would not speak with me. The invoice they sent us was wrong just like every other invoice they had ever sent us (Which is why we sometimes paid them late, because we had spent time figuring out what was wrong). We had even hired a gal here that spent nearly full time managing our relationship with them, trying to train them. They seemed like good people. Until this. I hate false pretenses. On the other hand I will work with anyone whom I find tells me the truth at all times. I spent the rest of Friday, and most of Monday trying to find out what the correct amount we owed them was, because they were holding our entire inventory hostage for payment. The amount went up every time I spoke with FFP. They gave me the name and number of their attorney, a company named Plasters & Williams, PC in Greeley Colorado. Neither Tembor Williams, nor Jim Plasters were in when I called, so I spoke with Dave Plasters. He listened politely, and said he would get back to me. He did not, and avoided my calls after this although I managed to talk to him a few times. He was completely unhelpful. Friday I rented a very large truck and arranged for a forklift, and continued to try to communicate with someone, anyone, to try to get the correct amount figured out so I could bring a check fetch our inventory. No luck all day Friday, until Monday. I had a terrible weekend of worry. Finally I just went to the bank, took out virtually all the cash we had on hand and drove up to FFP in the rented truck to try to work it out face to face. As a result some payments that we owed other people did not go out on time. I hate not paying bills on time. But people do it to us all the time... we are always working on receivables. (I don't understand it. If we are not careful our whole society will come crashing down over this. It is usually the big companies that have the money, holding it one more day, one more week for a few lousy more pennies of interest. Or just saying, No, I won't pay. Sorry, your problem. You shouldn't have done business with us if you didn't want to deliver something for nothing [someone actually had the gall to tell me this. I hear variations on the theme all the time]. They promise to pay in 10, 30, 60, 90, 180 days or longer.. and then say, "sorry we never saw an invoice please send us one", and the clock starts again! Do they really think we would forget to send a bill? We are even told this sometimes when we have confirmation that they did get the bill! Government workers call us and ask for the government discount, with the best of intentions... we tell them there is none, you pay the same as anyone else, you are lucky there is not a government surcharge! Why? We say because so often it takes forever to get paid, including collections efforts on our part. Then they still take the "quick pay" discount despite laws to the contrary.) This very issue of receivables is what that shut FFP down... non-payment by a big company that everyone knows could pay. But it still was no excuse for the way FFP treated WGS. Most of our payment was not yet due, and the part that was due, I could prove was an incorrect figure. After some talk, and Mel asking me to leave, both Verna Brown and I separately ended up calling the police who came, but claimed it was a civil matter (actually I thought it rather uncivil). All I wanted was a reasonable face to face discussion to work out the final price which I was ready to pay on the spot, in cash. Verna wanted what she wanted with no discussion. I finally made the decision and paid FFP off at their full demanded ransom amount, which fortunately was far less than the value of the inventory. At least they helped me to load the truck. If we at WGS had lost our inventory, and not been able to ship to customers, we would have been out of business very quickly. I had no choice but to pay them off. Our attorney told us that if we tried to use legal means to obtain our inventory, it would take weeks to get it, if we got it at all, and in any case it would probably end up costing more than the ransom amount they wanted. We finally got most of our inventory, but not everything, the rest seems to have just disappeared. We even got a box of stuff that was not ours, but we cannot tell whose it is to return it to them. We managed to get our 800# switched back to our offices on Friday, and immediately our sales volume for the following days tripled over anything FFP had ever done, which I attribute to our better handling of the phones. There is still a problem though. Thursday the 6th, and Friday the 7th FFP took our calls, and all weekend following their "Please Hold" message kept repeating in our customer's ears who called the toll number (970-346-4603) on our Web site, and in a number of advertisements. Of course the is the line that international customers would call, not being able access the 800#. Several people at FFP repeatedly assured me that the message would be changed to "This number is no longer in service, please call 303-693-3321", but it has yet to occur. It did finally get changed from "Please Hold" to "This number currently not available, please try again" after numerous complaints, but unfortunately this is not a lot better. The phone company would not help, even after our attorney called them. **PLEASE READ THIS even if you don't read anything else** If any customers tried to call us February 6-11, and have not been served, please accept my heartfelt apology, and call us to let us know what we can do to make it right. We do not have complete records for those days. If there is still anyone who called in the 6 months or so before that time, and does not feel that they were properly served, we would like to hear from you too. We have shifted our phone hours back to 8am-5pm Monday through Friday, 5 days a week USA Mountain Time from the 24 hour 7 day service we had before. We hope that the secure on-line ordering on our Web server with more complete information, and the improved service during the hours the phone lines are currently open will more than make up for this reduction in available "human" phone hours. We will expand the hours again when we have the volume needed to replace our phone system, and hire enough staff to answer the lines around the clock. We will not let anyone else handle our telephone calls again, and we have hired a few additional personnel to help our customers in the courteous, professional, timely and knowledgeable manner that they deserve and expect. So what happened with the van load of inventory? Fortunately I have a very large garage at my home, and I unloaded it there with the rented forklift and a pallet jack. The forklift was 1 inch too tall to go into the garage... It would fit loaded... but I knew better. Then we proceeded to pack and ship, moving things to the office as needed. This was the case for 3 weeks, and nearly drove us crazy. We have since done serious research, and have once again contracted a fulfillment house that has been in business for a very long time, with a good reputation, and strong financial statements to inventory, pack and ship our products... but not for customer contact. I rented the truck and forklift once again about a week ago and moved the inventory to CODA (the new people). Amazingly the same model forklift was a little shorter (they said the actual same one, but it couldn't have been)... and I could go right into the garage this time. The pallet jack worked better too, it actually went down when I pulled the lever, unlike the one I had used before that needed a screwdriver poked into the works to go down. It is quite a feeling having 2000 pounds coming at you on a pallet jack ... the only way to stop it is let it down, and the only way to do that was to poke a screwdriver in the right place at the right time! Please forgive us for any difficulties the above situation may have caused you. It was not our intention that it turn out as it did, but we are now back on track. -- -This month's LinuxMall specials: UseLinux video tape, Linus on "Future of the Linux Kernel" If you are considering selling a product, any product into the Linux Market, you will want to see this tape. We should have it back from the duplicator about the time you read this. We are reproducing it and making it available at a no profit price. It is not professionally done, as it was originally recorded for my own use only.. but there is no other record, and people came to me and demanded I make the tape available to them. What is on the tape: - Short intro by Virginia Lane, VP WGS - Linus Torvalds, The Future of the Linux Kernel 1.5 hours - Mark Bolzern, Linux: What it is, and Why it is significant .5 hours - Don Rosenberg, Linux and distribution channels: 1 hour Ways to enter the Commercial market - Jon "maddog" Hall, Using Linux in your business: 1.5 hours a Business Justification - Jon "maddog" Hall, Bob Young The Linux Market: 1.5 hours Who, What, Where, When and Why In the last session, Bob Young, President of Red Hat software goes through his calculations of the size of the Linux market, and arrives at figures to support as many as up to Six Million users already. Figures supplied independently by some of the users of FreeBSD concur, as do my own calculations, so this number is arrived at by several completely independent calculations using different supporting evidence. Item is at http://www.LinuxMall.com/Allprod/00128.html -- To keep up the Linux promotional work, money must be spent. In order to make money we sell any and all the excellent Linux items we can find, so any time you need or want a Linux related item, check us out at the Linux Shopping Mall! Remember that your purchase not only gets you a great product at a good price, but it also supports the advancement of Linux in a very significant way. Not to mention the frequent buyer points! About the specials... in order to get these prices you **MUST** provide the offer code WEX021 when you contact us. A Shipping & Handling charge will also be added to the price listed so that we can send it to you in a decent box that will protect the product. If you order from another country, you will be responsible for duty. Offer # WEX021 Quantities are limited. Prices expire March 31, 1997, or when current supplies run out. This is NOT a complete list of what we carry. Item# Offer: ----> 10% off ALL O'Reilly books bought on-line. 25% off if buying a newer edition of a book you already own, send us its cover (Fax ok) 00171--Tri-Linux CD, one CD with RedHat 4.1, Debian 1.2 & Slackware 3.1 $3 The $3 price is valid only if ordered online, $9.95 if by phone Anyone who bought a previous version of Debian from us and turned in the registration may have this CD for free... providing they will pay shipping & request it via E-Mail. 00128--Video from UseLinux, Linus, "Future of the Linux Kernel"....... $29 Mark, Don, maddog, Bob and more. See above for full description. 00059--X-Inside Common Desktop with Motif 1.2.5 at .................. $189 00103--Red Hat Official Linux version 4.1 with Metro-X, $49, on sale $39 v4.0-InfoWorld's Operating System of the year! Includes printed Manual 00106--Caldera Open Linux Base ... Caldera "the next generation"...... $55 00099--Caldera Internet Office Suite WordPerfect/NExS,Z-Mail,Motif....$219 00094--Caldera WABI, run Microsoft Windows 16bit software on Linux .. $199 00098--Caldera Word Perfect/Motif bundle .............................$129 00078--ApplixWare GUI Office Suite Professional Edition $495, on sale $189 Includes Free upgrade to version 4.3 office as soon as available. 00079--ApplixWare GUI Office Suite Education Edition $79, on sale at $69 (same as Pro Ed, fax of student id or staff id proves that you qualify upgrade to 4.3 when available at $25 for media only or $45 man/media) The above are our featured items this month. If you wish to purchase ANY Linux related items visit http://www.LinuxMall.com and browse our catalog. If you do not find what you want, please let us know. You can also email sales@wgs.com, call 800-234-7813, or 303-693-3321, or Fax 303-699-2893. Our order call center operates Monday-Friday 8am-5pm US Mountain Time. === The "Linux Newsletter" is intended to keep you current with what is going on inside & outside the Linux community. We believe that "The LINUX Way" embodies the FREEDOM to choose. Our perspective is one of reporting substantial occurrences that affect acceptance of Linux. This includes significant commercial product releases. We are strongly in favor of Linux and its related products in a homogeneous network with, or as a viable alternative to, other operating systems and products. We intend not only to report on the market, but to help create it by dissemination of information and presentation of opportunities. The author is Mark Bolzern. If you want to know a more about me (many have asked), visit http://www.LinuxMall.com/announce.html, read the bottom item. Back issues of the Linux Newsletter can also be found at the above URL. == If you received this newsletter direct from us via E-Mail you are already subscribed. If you received it by any other means and wish to subscribe to this FREE newsletter, send email to wgsnews@wgs.com with "SUBSCRIBE" in the subject line or first line of the body of the message. If you wish to receive a simple notification that the next issue is available on our web site, that too can be arranged... just send a message to wgsnews@wgs.com containing in the subject line of first line of the body of the message the word "NOTIFY". Your status is always that of the last message you sent - If you wish to unsubscribe, email to wgsnews@wgs.com the original message that you received, and put "REMOVE" or "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the subject line. Returning the message you got insures that we can remove the right address from our files. Without the original address, often email forwarding will fool us, resulting in annoyance on all sides. We do check our addresses and do NOT send duplicates, nor do we fail to remove people who ask it from the list. We are NOT interested in angering people, as that is counter productive... Our objective is to serve and inform those who wish it. -- WorkGroup Solutions, Inc. News Account mailto:wgsnews@wgs.com Find all your Linux needs at the All-Linux Shopping Mall http://www.LinuxMall.com mailto:info@wgs.com Tel: 303-699-7470 Orders: 800-234-7813 or 303-693-3321 Fax: 303-699-2793 From popmail Fri Mar 14 13:48:47 1997 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 17:33:51 +1300 To: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Re: repercussions of ITAR and SAFE on Linux, Internet and Business (fwd) From: Paul Foley Status: O On Thu, 13 Mar 1997 11:28:49 -0800 (PST), Allen Francom wrote: While we're talking about encryption I would just like to mention a really powerful technique that exemplifies why regulations can't matter in reality. Tom Clancy, the famous author of spy books, had a great encryption method whereby you record CD's with background radiation noise from radio telescopes. A "One Time Pad". If anyone's thinking of using this, note that radio-telescope noise is a particularly bad source of data :-) Granted, this is a logistics problem for generic applications, but the point is, clearly, anyone who wants to be protected for real, will be, and nothing can stop it. Anyone who wants to be protected and is willing to take the necessary care can be, that's true. Unfortunately, most people know very little about cryptography and are willing to put their trust in whoever shouts the loudest about their latest "unbreakable" crypto, or won't trust any crypto at all (NSA can read everything, otherwise it'd be illegal. Any PGP later than 2.3a is "compromised"). Many simply can't count (48 bits is 8 times harder than 40 bits.) Also, depending on your threat model, TEMPEST may be a worry. Emissions control is a much greater problem than physical security or crypto. The whole issue seems to be to focus the masses at a few select methods that are somewhat breakable if need be. PGP, RSA, etc., I don't have complete faith that public key systems are really "hard", but I seriously doubt that RSA (with a reasonable key length) is "somewhat breakable" today. There are clearly better stronger methods. The OTP is the only truly unbreakable system. The difficulties are getting a lot of good non-biased keying data and the ever-present key distribution problem. Strong ciphers like IDEA, used in PGP, though not theoretically unbreakable, don't have any known attack better than brute force. DES has too short a key, and specialized hardware (which the NSA, at least, undoubtedly has) could brute it in a few hours for reasonable expense, but 128 bit ciphers are quite common, and those will not be brute forced. Triple-DES, with 112 bit keyspace, is also a good choice, and I doubt any useful cryptanalytic attack on DES will be forthcoming (after 20 years of concerted effort, the best attack I'm aware of requires 2^47 chosen plaintexts) The best are the ones that very few even know about. Security through obscurity is foolish. I know due to the nature of computer systems, routers, and the whole Internet, what I'm suggesting is bad, technologically. Philosophically not so bad, I believe. I see it the other way around. Anonymity is important. So, more important in my book is really the infrastructure itself, and, give me leeway, "virtual-authenticated-point-to-point" connecitons. This is exactly what IPsec is about. -- Paul Foley --- PGPmail preferred PGP key ID 0x1CA3386D available from keyservers fingerprint = 4A 76 83 D8 99 BC ED 33 C5 02 81 C9 BF 7A 91 E8 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- A psychiatrist is a person who will give you expensive answers that your wife will give you for free. From popmail Fri Mar 14 19:41:21 1997 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 17:33:51 +1300 To: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Re: repercussions of ITAR and SAFE on Linux, Internet and Business (fwd) From: Paul Foley Status: O On Thu, 13 Mar 1997 11:28:49 -0800 (PST), Allen Francom wrote: While we're talking about encryption I would just like to mention a really powerful technique that exemplifies why regulations can't matter in reality. Tom Clancy, the famous author of spy books, had a great encryption method whereby you record CD's with background radiation noise from radio telescopes. A "One Time Pad". If anyone's thinking of using this, note that radio-telescope noise is a particularly bad source of data :-) Granted, this is a logistics problem for generic applications, but the point is, clearly, anyone who wants to be protected for real, will be, and nothing can stop it. Anyone who wants to be protected and is willing to take the necessary care can be, that's true. Unfortunately, most people know very little about cryptography and are willing to put their trust in whoever shouts the loudest about their latest "unbreakable" crypto, or won't trust any crypto at all (NSA can read everything, otherwise it'd be illegal. Any PGP later than 2.3a is "compromised"). Many simply can't count (48 bits is 8 times harder than 40 bits.) Also, depending on your threat model, TEMPEST may be a worry. Emissions control is a much greater problem than physical security or crypto. The whole issue seems to be to focus the masses at a few select methods that are somewhat breakable if need be. PGP, RSA, etc., I don't have complete faith that public key systems are really "hard", but I seriously doubt that RSA (with a reasonable key length) is "somewhat breakable" today. There are clearly better stronger methods. The OTP is the only truly unbreakable system. The difficulties are getting a lot of good non-biased keying data and the ever-present key distribution problem. Strong ciphers like IDEA, used in PGP, though not theoretically unbreakable, don't have any known attack better than brute force. DES has too short a key, and specialized hardware (which the NSA, at least, undoubtedly has) could brute it in a few hours for reasonable expense, but 128 bit ciphers are quite common, and those will not be brute forced. Triple-DES, with 112 bit keyspace, is also a good choice, and I doubt any useful cryptanalytic attack on DES will be forthcoming (after 20 years of concerted effort, the best attack I'm aware of requires 2^47 chosen plaintexts) The best are the ones that very few even know about. Security through obscurity is foolish. I know due to the nature of computer systems, routers, and the whole Internet, what I'm suggesting is bad, technologically. Philosophically not so bad, I believe. I see it the other way around. Anonymity is important. So, more important in my book is really the infrastructure itself, and, give me leeway, "virtual-authenticated-point-to-point" connecitons. This is exactly what IPsec is about. -- Paul Foley --- PGPmail preferred PGP key ID 0x1CA3386D available from keyservers fingerprint = 4A 76 83 D8 99 BC ED 33 C5 02 81 C9 BF 7A 91 E8 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- A psychiatrist is a person who will give you expensive answers that your wife will give you for free. From popmail Fri Mar 14 19:48:35 1997 Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 09:53:35 -0800 (PST) From: Dwight Johnson To: Linux-Business Subject: Re: repercussions of ITAR and SAFE on Linux, Internet and Business (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O On Thu, 13 Mar 1997, Don Marti wrote: > On Fri, 14 Mar 1997, Paul Foley wrote: > > > True. It means that crypto in the kernel will likely be source code > > that you download from elsewhere.. Perhaps Australia? That seem to > > be a more reasonable country.. > > That's doesn't necessarily make it safe. From Apache Week a couple > months ago (http://www.apacheweek.com/issues/96-12-20#crypto): > > > Incidentally, the NCSA server used to have 'hooks' in the code to > > allow people to add PGP encryption. Despite they fact that this > > server never included actual encryption technology, they were made > > to remove these hooks by the US government. After this Apache also > > removed its similar hooks. Brian Behlendorf, an Apache developer, > > comments "No cryptographic source code was ever distributed by the > > Apache project. Despite this, the Apache server code was deemed by > > the NSA to violate the ITAR.". Perhaps, then, it will be necessary to have a kernel-crypto HOWTO together with a crypto support kernel patch maintained abroad somewhere. Among other things, the HOWTO can explain how to insert a crypto hook in the kernel code. Here in the US we have laws and we also have the time-honored practice of civil disobedience when those laws don't make sense. That is what seems to be called for here. I don't believe Phil Zimmermann is doing time yet. Dwight From popmail Fri Mar 14 19:49:40 1997 From: WGS News To: linux-biz-request@lege.com Subject: Linux Newsletter Issue #4 Date: Sat, 8 Mar 97 16:25:55 MST Status: O Linux Newsletter: Issue #4 Date: 03/07/97 Table of contents: -So, which "Linux Distribution" or "CD" is the best anyway? -Linus Torvalds scheduled to be presented with major award at UniForum, San Francisco, March 10-14, 1997 also: Volunteers needed -ApplixWare dramatic price decrease -Linux Expo, Research Triangle Park, North Carolina April 4-5 1997 -SoftBank Comdex participation, June 2-5, Help needed -ALE (Atlanta Linux Exposition) right after Comdex, June 6-7, 1997 -Linux International continues to grow, LI Web site wins award -Linux on the space shuttle -Large deployments of Linux -Linux Counter -Corporate users' perception of Linux -AcctOnIt Beta program -Linux Mall, Big News, Bad News, Good News -This month's LinuxMall specials, Video of Linus & More, "Future of Linux" -How to subscribe/unsubscribe to this newsletter == Friday, Feb. 7, 1997 is a day that will long live in infamy here at WorkGroup Solutions, Inc., and the Linux Mall. If you called one of our phone numbers on this day or the day before, it's very important that you read about it. Fortunately there is good news too. More information is provided later in this newsletter along with several new programs being launched by the LinuxMall... a Paying Referral program where you can make money for nothing (well almost nothing), a Dealer Program, a Vendor program, Secure On-line Ordering, Cheaper & Better shipping, Frequent Buyer points, and a dramatically expanded product line. I promise the next newsletter will be smaller unless I am told otherwise by a majority of readers. This one is a very special case. There is a specific location later in the document that says, "PLEASE READ THIS even if you don't read anything else** As long as we are on the topic, let me ask, Would people like the newsletter larger? or smaller and more frequent? or stay just as is: monthly and typically about four to five printed pages? If you have news that you think should be included, I invite submissions, but do not promise to publishing them. -Mark -- -So, which "Linux Distribution" or "CD" is the best anyway? We keep being asked this. How can we fairly answer this question in an unbiased manner? Especially since we sell not only our own Linux Pro, but also the distributions made by everyone else? Why do we even carry the others? Often vendors think it is so that we can say ours is better, but it is not true. We know that the world has room for different philosophies, and no one choice is always right for everyone. We know some people for whom Linux Pro is best, but there are even more people for whom Caldera, Debian, Red Hat, or SlackWare are best. We generally ask a few questions, and then make two or three suggestions in response to how the prospective customer describes themselves, but we leave the final choice of what to buy up to the customer. Each customer might be satisfied with ANY Linux distribution, but which is really best for a particular person? We do not think that the question "which Linux is best" can have an answer, without first asking the potential user what he intends to use it for, and how. Questions we might ask a customer include: -Do you prefer to be on the leading or even bleeding edge? Or is stability the #1 concern. Would you prefer the Linux you choose be older in the interest of thorough testing, providing it still runs the desired software? -Are frequent updates and upgrades for new features in your opinion, an asset or a liability? It is neat to have the latest features if you need them, but one could also spend all their time doing nothing but updating.... for business it just needs to work. Bug fixes are only relevent if the bugs actually affect getting work done with the system. -How do you prefer to be notified of bugs, or do you not care unless you actually run into them? -Do you prefer maximum control, or maximum simplicity, or some compromise between the two. -Is in place upgradability important to you? and the ability to cleanly and easily reverse an upgrade done if problems result? -Do you want popular commercial products included and integrated into the Linux Distribution CD? Or is it more important to be able to copy it, and install it on many systems for free? -Does it matter that there is only one CD with Linux and everything on it well integrated, or are you the type to explore, who wants a big multi-cd set that has everything, including the kitchen sink? Many people never even look at the extra CDs in big sets. These are SOME of the questions we want to be able to ask our customers so that one to two choices will stand out based on matching the Linux vendor's own words and philosophies to the customer's. We would be happy to include additional questions submitted to us, providing they are relatively timeless, and telling. Shortly a message will be sent to each vendor who packages a distribution of Linux, and whose product we carry. We would like Linux vendors make clear their positions on the above questions, as well as recommend to us other questions to ask. We also invite requests for participation by vendors whose products we do not currently carry. We want to know the target user and market for each Linux Distribution is. For whom specifically are THEY the best, and why. Detailed profiles of typical users which potential purchasers can see THEMSELVES in. We will also respond to the questions for our own Linux Pro philosophy which we feel is still unique, but not necessarily better. We will invite comparisons & contrasts, and allow vendors to mention competing products... but will not allow mudslinging. They can state how something else is different, or theirs is better for a particular circumstance, but NOT put down another product. If any vendor comes up with another good question, we will ask the same of all of them. We are more interested in each Linux distribution maker's philosophy, something a person or company can buy into for the long term, than we are in the technical details (although this is interesting too) of each vendor's current release. Once we have everyone's responses we will merge them into a single document and pass it completed back to all the vendors for their further comments or suggestions. We want to create a fair and upbeat document which potential Linux users can read, and use to choose which Linux Distribution is best for THEM. We want them to come away believing that they have made the right choice for the long term. Then we want to make this document publicly available on our Web site, invite the Linux Journal to publish it, Offer it to the LDP, etc. Why are we doing this? We do not want a repeat of the "UNIX wars" happening to the Linux market. There is room for all philosophies & products providing they are clearly spelled out. If any vendor refuses to participate, the document will name the vendor, and the representative who refused. Nothing more. -- -Linus Torvalds scheduled to be presented with major award at UniForum, San Francisco, March 10-14, 1997 also: Volunteers needed UniForum '97 will be held March 10-14, 1997, in San Francisco and The UniForum Association is pleased to announce James Gosling, lead developer of Java, and Linus Torvalds, creator of LINUX, as recipients of this year's UniForum Achievement Award. The awards will be presented in ceremonies at UniForum '97 at the Moscone Center in San Francisco. All registrants of UniForum '97 are invited to attend the award presentation free of charge. The UniForum Award, presented annually since 1983, recognizes individuals or groups whose work has significantly advanced the cause of open systems over time, or has had an immediate and positive impact on the industry with long term ramifications. The UniForum Board of Directors considered a number of nominees for this year's awards, voting unanimously to honor James Gosling and Linus Torvalds for their contributions to the industry. Gosling, a vice president and Fellow at Sun Microsystems, managed the critical work that created the Java language at Sun, and is the lead engineer at JavaSoft for the Java/Hot Java system. The award also celebrates Torvalds' breakthrough work on the LINUX kernel and his pioneering efforts in making his work available at little or no cost to anyone wishing to develop on it. Torvalds has recently moved to the US from Finland where he completed his Masters Degree from the University of Helsinki. He joins the staff at Transmeta, Santa Clara, CA. The award will be presented to Linus Torvalds on Thursday, March 13th, as part of the morning Keynote Session at UniForum '97. On the Trade Show floor the latest products and services from more than 100 exhibitors will be on display, with several specialized technology and vendor pavilions planned including the Linux Pavilion. For complete information on UniForum '97, be sure to visit http://www.UniForum97.com. Attendees can register on-line at this Web site. Information on all SOFTBANK COMDEX events, including UniForum '97, is available at http://www.Comdex.com. Linux International still needs volunteers to help run the Linux Pavilion there. Email to mailto:Comdex@LI.org if you want to help out! -- -ApplixWare mailing & dramatic price decrease This one is a good news / bad news scenario. Good news for anyone who thought as I did that the price of $499 was just too darned high for an Office Suite package (in an age of $199 Microsoft Office), regardless of how good it was. Bad news for WGS in the short term. How so? Well, WGS spent about 90 days developing a mailer for ApplixWare and simultaneously lobbied to reduce the price to $199, or at least to $249. There was no budging. So finally I approved a $50,000 mailing to sell it at $445, the best we could do under the circumstances. The mailing had been on the street for less than 30 days when we got word that the price was being reduced to $199 on the 4.2 developer version (which we now sell at $189), and that it will also be upgraded for free to the 4.3 office version as soon as it was available (March expected). So what is wrong with this? Well, for one thing we had to make up to some people who had paid the higher price the week before the announcement, and all our inventory had to be re-valued. Fortunately our vendor (a very good but apparently somewhat unpredictable company) took responsibility, and we got help with this area. But this was not the worst part. The worst part is that it takes about 3-4 months for a mailing to bear full fruit. When something like this happens, it cuts the life of the mailing short... in other words 50K and a lot of time & effort down the drain. If you have never worked on putting a mailing or a catalog together... you would be very surprised how much time and work it takes. Ordinarily this would not be that big an issue... but WGS has taken quite a number of hard knocks since last summer. We had two major distributors not pay their bills to us, after we shipped them product totaling more than $100,000. But there is more... and I report it later in this newsletter along with telling you why Friday Feb. 7, 1997 will be infamous around here forever... We are hoping the end of the story will be a good one. That the reduced price will generate so many ApplixWare and other products sales to more than make up the losses, and therefore... a happy ending for all concerned. In the meantime, if anyone still responds to the mailing, we deliver ApplixWare at the reduced price (without them having to ask, even if they send a check for $445). Now don't take this wrong. WGS is not about to go out of business, nor are we in trouble. Fortunately a lot of people deal with us honestly every month, and we try to be fair to them in return. This after all is what it is all about. This and showing people what they are missing if they are not using Linux! Freedom or slavery, which do you choose? I guess I am a slave to Linux and my business! :-) If you think that WGS is not spending quite as much money promoting Linux as we once did, you now know why. A business must break even at least. If sales jump and we make more, and keep the bills paid, then we'll fuel the Linux promotion mill, and open the throttle up further. We promote not just ourselves, but all that Linux is: Everyone's products, user groups, and the philosophy of freedom & participation. It is the community, not me, who profits from this promotion. Fortunately, many other good people are involved in the same work. WGS could not accomplish this worldwide effort alone. I am proud to be an instrumental part of Linux International, and CLUE. http://www.LI.org and http://CLUE.denver.co.us Attention Students: Business may be tough, but in a day and age of downsizing... the corporate world is not safe anymore either. What is a person to do? Here's a hint: Educate yourself, to make sure you know more than those around you. Don't take just business OR computer science in school. Combine a trade with a thorough knowledge of computers. Learn how to best apply computers to that trade. This will make you indispensable. I frequently get job offers of $100K to $500K per year or more because this is what I have done in my life. I strongly encourage you to do the same.. One more thing... dare to dream... and follow it. Hard & smart work pays off eventually. Oh, by the way... we are always looking for good full time local support techs, and good sales people. Drop us a resume, income expectations and your goals for the next five years if you like. We don't pay much (yet?), but we do have fun, while learning and accomplishing a lot. -- -Linux Expo, 3rd annual Research Triangle Park, NC, April 4-5 1997 The Linux Expo features two full days of technical talks by 14 leading Linux developers, and the biggest exhibition hall yet with lots of companies showing the latest Linux products, the First Annual Linux Bowl, installation fest, job fair, food, fun, and juggling! This is the one of the largest gatherings of like-minded Linux users this year! Here's a unique opportunity to meet in person and debate issues with all those Linux hackers and developers you've heard of, or debated with on the net. Whether you just want to meet the people responsible for your favorite technology, or whether you are looking for valuable insights into doing business or software development the Linux way, this is a exceptional opportunity. While the conference is largely technical and features leading developers, you will also be able to meet with leading commercial vendors. This event is a great opportunity to learn more about Linux. Whether you need to learn more about the specifics of recompiling the kernel to achieve symmetrical multiprocessing, or just find out how to configure multi-user Doom, this is the event for you. Don't miss this chance to learn from the leading Linux experts! There will be an Install Fest (Did I coin that term? I hadn't seen it used before I wrote it in a CLUE newsletter well over a year ago) at which you can get expert help with installation problems. There will be a Linux Show with the latest Linux hardware, components, and systems vendors, to software application, tools, and demonstrations from the vendors. Help on installation, advice on marketing products, even a job fair featuring Linux and UNIX opportunities. There will be balloons, jugglers, speakers and hanging out. This is going to be one fun weekend you don't want to miss! Admission to the Expo is free. There will also be technical talks by the masters. This will cost some pennies. For more information visit http://www.LinuxExpo.org -- -SoftBank Comdex participation, June 2-5, Help needed The Spring Comdex is in Atlanta, Georgia, June 2-5, 1997 The Fall Comdex is in Las Vegas Nevada, November 17-21, 1997 If you are a vendor of anything at all related to Linux, you will want to be part of the Linux International Pavilion at both Spring and Fall Comdex shows. Contact SoftBank Comdex at http://www.Comdex.com. Bill Gates will be keynoting there at the spring show. If we can get enough draw and participation maybe we can get Linus invited as a keynoter in future years! With Linux now having 6 million estimated users worldwide in addition to getting top awards from both BYTE and InfoWorld magazines, and all the other press it should only be a matter of time. We will be asking for volunteers for the Linux International Pavilion & Booth about a month before each show, but you can get your message indicating interest in helping at any COMDEX show to mailto:Comdex@li.org at any time. Please be sure to let us know which show you want to help with! Let your voice be heard, help out! -- -ALE (Atlanta Linux Exposition) right after Comdex, June 6-7, 1997 The Atlanta Linux User's Group (ALUG) has chosen the Inforum building for its Weekend Linux Event directly after Spring Comdex. It is three blocks away from the World Congress Center, and about two blocks from the Olympic Park restaurants. This weekend was chosen so that Vendors and Linux Enthusiasts attending Spring Comdex in Atlanta can easily stay the weekend and attend the ALE too. Linux International will be underwriting the conference. LI will also be sponsoring some ALUG volunteers in our booth during Comdex, to help promote Linux International and its work, and to help promote the ALUG conference after Comdex. ALUG will be managing the vendors special needs, contacting them, designing the layout of the tables, etc. They will be contacting speakers, creating the conference schedule, and pre-registering conference attendees. In addition, ALUG will be doing publicity and promotion of the event, both through the SoftBank group and through local organizations, publications, the Linux Journal, etc. Linux International encourages vendors to support this event by purchasing display tables, supplying speakers, and creating links from their respective web pages. LI also encourages any and all Linux interested parties to plan to attend. This conference will be very inexpensive to attend in any capacity. Contact Information: Vendor Relations. If you wish to display your wares Steve DuChene < mailto:sduchene@mindspring.com > Conference & Speaker Relations. If you wish to make a presentation Chris Farris < mailto:chrisf@cc.gatech.edu > Publicity. If you wish to write an article, or promote the event Steve Lewis < mailto:sglewis@mindspring.com > The web pages will be up soon. -- -Linux International Web Site wins Award, LI continues to grow The Linux Journal selected http://www.LI.org as one of the best resources for Linux users on the Web. They will be displaying a "Recommended!" graphic beside its listing on the Linux Journal Web site at http://www.SSC.com/linux/web.html Congratulations Linux International WebMasters! Linux International also continues to grow. Several new sponsors have joined in the last several months. Following is a list of the current corporate members & sponsors (in order of joining). Sponsoring Corporate Members: WorkGroup Solutions, Inc.; Red Hat Software; Xi Graphics Inc.; Caldera Inc.; Digital Equipment Corporation; Yggdrasil Computing Incorporated; Metro Link; Linux Hardware Solutions, Inc.; InfoMagic, Inc. Corporate Members: Just Logic; Tower Technology Corporation; Linux Journal; H&L Software, Inc.; Quant-X, Sebit Ltd.; Tech-X Consulting, Inc. You may obtain more information about any of them by visiting LI's award winning pages at http://www.LI.org -- -Linux on the space shuttle Debian Linux is going up with an upcoming space shuttle mission. The c.o.l.a message is at http://www.CS.Helsinki.fi/~wirzeniu/linux/cola.archive/1997-02/cola.1997-02-24.014 An easier way is to hit http://www.DejaNews.com and run a search for debian rides space shuttle and then pick the item that was posted to comp.os.linux.announce. By the time you look, you may also have to tell the search to look in the old usenet news archive instead of the current one. This info is also on the Linus / USENIX Video, which begins shipping out this next week (more later in this newsletter). The information was presented during one of the sessions by an audience member involved in the project. On this tape you will also find out how Linux is used by NASA mission control. -- -Large deployments of Linux There is not a lot of information available yet as to large deployments of Linux. I have come across the following item which was sent to me graciously by a reader. Existing Linuxers are an independent lot, numbering apparently about 6 million. It is too bad we cannot get more business people to submit info on their successes. To set the stage: The following conversation is in regard to the fact that Jim Mohr got a lot of good input from my request in an earlier newsletter (Back issues available at http://www.LinuxMall.com/announce.html ) .... but there is still more to be done. The > indented portions are my words, and the un-indented that of my source. >Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 15:46:35 GMT >Subject: Re: Large Deployments of Linux in Business > >As long as we are on this topic, Jim got lots of valuable input, but there >is a glaring lack of "reference sites", namely large deployments of Linux >to solve a "Business" problem or "Strategic" problems within a company that >are referenceable by other companies wishing to do similar deployments. >There were very few "vertical market" applications, such as hotel management, >video or auto store management, etc. where extensive customer deployments >of strategic systems have been done. We know such sites exist, but most >refuse to provide references on the grounds of "strategic advantage" >or on the grounds that their projects have not yet been running long enough >that their attorneys feel comfortable using it as PR. If anyone knows of >such sites who'll talk (especially management types), please step forward. >I know of several such sites that won't talk on the grounds of strategic >advantage. > >One thing we did learn, is that the world abounds with "Linux as a server", >a "Web Server", an "ISP", a "Student System" or as a programming station. Are you aware of a survey being carried out by a group of Linux users who call themselves mclinux (mission critical linux) ? Well, here is one that I found today. It is the preliminary results of the mclinux survey: http://Free.Rmnet.it/linux/results.html (beware: this site is in Italy and is SLOWWWWW from the UK!) But its worth it. It makes interesting reading :) >It was pretty quick for me, fortunately. >I read the entire site. Thank you for pointing it out. It is a great >read for a technical type. But unfortunately I saw little there for >making a "business case" to a management type. Even saw stuff that I >would not dare let a non-techie see until after they had used Linux >for themselves. > >I don't know if you have noticed, but many if not most management types >don't know much technically, confuse easily, and almost universally refuse >to listen to techie types. They used to "Bleed Blue" (Because they >felt safe with "Big Blue", IBM, but now they insist on Microsoft >unless squarely confronted, in a businesslike manner with facts, business >justifications and solid proof (not opinions). The message that came with it (which I've already deleted :-( ), said something about looking for people to write an article about the results ... >We might be able to twist this into more business acceptable material, >but virtually all of it is "Servers" and specifically "Web Servers" >which is a good niche.... but is only a drop in the bucket compared >to the whole potential market that Linux could actually apply to >even now. -- -Linux Counter One very important point is that Linux is not taken as seriously as it should be by the mainstream computer press, or by vendors of computer related items because there are no hard numbers as to the size of the Linux market, or it's demographics. One way you can help is to register yourself with the "Linux Counter", a census, and an attempt to get hard numbers, at http://Domen.Uninett.no/~hta/linux/counter.html Also there was a rather enlightening presentation done by Bob Young, President of Red Hat Software at the USENIX/UseLinux show earlier this year. That session is on the USENIX Video tape and should probably be seen by any vendor considering entering the Linux Marketplace. The numbers are much larger than they seem on the surface. He did a very good presentation using the base "soft" numbers available. He also defined the difference between hard and soft numbers for those that want to know. -- -Corporate users' perception of Linux Following is a message forwarded to me for comment... I have included my response, as it is a very common misconception about Linux. >Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 12:59:40 -0600 (CST) >Subject: Quote about Linux > >I found this at the bottom of someone's mailing-list message. > >> Corporate users want to be able to scream "we are paying for your >> OS so run and give us what we ask", they don't want to have to >> explain to their top managers that Linus had a baby and he could >> not fix the bug in the Linux kernel yesterday. >> -- asuardi@it.oracle.com > >I think this is an interesting perspective on Linux. Right, and a fairly common one which ignores that there are about 100 kernel developers, any of which can make a patch available if needed. They do not have to wait for Linus to get back and fold it into the reference tree in order to fix an emergency problem. What company can offer that? What other OS has had major bugs resolved within hours of discovery? What is more, many major OS use GNU components, including the GNU C compiler. How do they rationalize that? These Corporate users could as easily pay a Linux competent person (or several around the clock), and scream... we are paying your salary, so now go get the patch that fixes this emergency! They'd probably get more for their money. -- -AcctOnIt Beta program For those that are interested, there is a major PC Accounting package available for Beta to run under Linux at ftp://ftp.WGS.com/pub/wgs/acctonit We cannot by contract say which one, but you HAVE heard of it. The entire package will be free to all people who download it for testing during the beta period. After the beta period is over, the product will begin to be sold. All testers may continue to own and use the last version that they downloaded. A problem has been detected so that it will not yet run on Red Hat 4.x, but this should be resolved shortly (C dynamic library issues apparently). -- -Linux Mall, Big News, Bad News, Good News, Before I tell you about Black Friday... I want to give you some really good news about changes at the Linux Shopping Mall. This is a rollout that has been waiting in the wings for quite some time as we developed everything needed. I am happy to finally be able to tell you about it all. =Better Shipping: We have concluded a deal with Airborne Express to ship our orders worldwide. Fed-Ex versus Airborne is like Hertz & Avis. Can't tell the difference in most respects, but Avis is smaller and tries harder. What does this mean to you? Well, if you are in a country other than the USA, you will get very good rates on the price of shipping, and the customs brokerage will be handled easily and quickly by working the delivery company instead of the government. You will still have to pay customs/duty, and the amount of these are impossible to pre-determine, but deliveries will be as fast and as inexpensive as possible. If you are in the United States, the fact that we are using Airborne means quick service, and good prices as well, but will have less impact than Internationally. If a package does not arrive on time, we will be able to quickly and easily track it down with the Airborne "Positive Tracking" system available on their web site. =Dramatically expanded product line: In the last couple of months we have added over a hundred new products to the "Online Shopping Mall" on our Web server. This is showing no signs of slowing down as vendors come out of the woodwork wanting us to carry their products. Our goal is to become THE place where people will know that they can find whatever Linux related items they may want. For more information, http://www.LinuxMall.com/mallidx.html *Note*: All of the following items will be in full swing by the end of March. I had been holding off the newsletter until the electronic signup & processing for all these programs was fully functional on our Web site, but cannot hold it any longer. The Web Site enhancements are currently operational for internal testing by our employees, so I feel comfortable making the announcements anyway. We found a few minor glitches that need to be ironed out before opening the system extensions up for everyone to access. We will make another anouncement when we feel our electronic processing is perfect and bulletproof. In the meantime you can read the information available online about the following programs. =Secure On-line Ordering functional: We have been working on one of the most sophisticated on-line ordering systems that you have ever seen using our own WEBworx product. It should have been be on-line in its first version by the time you read this, and may still be (if not, try again later, it is on the edge of goin on-line). Give it a shot.... the way it works you can build an entire order and then cancel it if you like with no repercussions at all. The order is not final until the end of the ordering process when you hit the special button to make it final. There is still more that we want to do to this system, and we will proceed doing it after we have the first cut on-line. We would love to hear your comments on it. Just hit the "Add" button from any displayed product page to try it! The first time it will ask you to establish an account (done completely online) so that you never have provide your full information again. Establishing an account does *not* commit you to anything. For more information, http://www.LinuxMall.com =Frequent buyer points: The Linux Shopping Mall is now accruing "Frequent Buyer" points. Every dollar you spend with us will accrue a point. Filling out the on-line form to put yourself on our mailing list the first time accrues 100 points. These points will be redeemable for prizes, such as products, and on-line shopping sprees. Details will be announced later, but for now... start accruing those points! For more information, http://www.LinuxMall.com/mallinf.html =Referral program: We are launching a referral program, where you can fill out an on-line form and receive a segment of HTML code that you can put on any web page or other location that you like. If someone uses the button included in this segment of HTML code to come to our shopping mall, and then buys something... WE PAY YOU a commission. No phone calls or other effort is necessary on your part, as everything is handled on-line. For more info, or to sign up, http://www.LinuxMall.com/mallrfr.html =Dealer program: This program allows consultants, value added resellers, computer stores, mass buying corporations and others to use our on-line or printed catalog to buy or sell Linux related items. Discounts (or commissions) are given based on the volume of sales to any given dealer or his/her customers. We are constantly expanding our product line so that anything you or your customers may need can be found at the Linux Shopping Mall, and you can make money with it. For more information, http://www.LinuxMall.com/malldlr.html =Vendor program: This program allows vendors and publishers of Linux Related products to make their wares available to the world through the Linux Shopping Mall. Sell to all our new and prospective customers. It covers all aspects of bringing products to market to answer the question, "So, if I port "XXXXX" to Linux, how and to whom will I sell it?" For more information, http://www.LinuxMall.com/mallvndr.html =User Group Program: This program creates a venue for interaction between the Linux Shopping Mall and user groups worldwide. User groups can help customers everywhere better than we can in many ways, and we wish to support them in this. For more information, http://www.LinuxMall.com/mallugs.html ****** BLACK FRIDAY: Well here it is. Black Friday. I have mentioned it several times now in this newsletter. As if the ApplixWare price drop above and the distributors nailing us was not enough... this was an even tougher nut to deal with in the short term. I saved it for the end, because it is kind of long. I think that our faithful customers & readers deserve to know, even if some people choose to think badly of us for it. I feel it is important to be fair, and share the truth. I want WGS to be a different kind of company one that is honest and straighforward. One that is always fair and helpful, not one that holds up false pretenses as so many companies do, including the ones mentioned below. Saturn claims to be a different kind of car company, and a lot of people like their products and their ways. WGS wants to be a different kind of computer software company. What is it that Arby's says? Different is good? We have a code of ethics to follow here which is more stringent than any other company I have worked at. Anyway ... here goes ... We used to use a fulfillment house named Rocky Mountain SofTrak in Boulder to do our packing and shipping. Then our volume of phone calls became too much for our phone system and staff. We asked if SofTrak could arrange to take simple "orders" calls as they had told us they could when we originally signed up with them. They got another fulfillment house with a substantial call center involved, Fulfillment Plus (FFP). We worked on training FFP for over 6 months. FFP never quite seemed to be able to figure out how to serve our callers despite our continued help (what is so tough about listening to a customer, and taking an order correctly?). Even FFP agreed that they were not doing the best job, but constantly appeared to try even harder than before. I respect this, and like to give people every opportunity. I figure this is why we have so many loyal customers, friends, and vendors that will work with us. FFP did slowly improve, and continued handling more and more calls. We kept working with them, figuring that the costs (including lost customers, misplaced orders, inaccurate information given, etc., just one more week and we'll get it right) in the short run would be worth it in the long run. We would have improved customer service, longer availability hours, and more growth potential over what our staff could immediately do. It is terribly expensive to have the room, the people, the phone facilities and computers to do a really good job on a large scale. Any time we found out a customer had not been treated well or served properly, we went out of our way to make it up to that customer. This is just the way we do things around here. We always published the corporate phone number and made sure that the phone people also knew to give this number to any customers that they did not seem to be able to properly handle, and so customers could know to call another place if things got out of hand. The first thing that went wrong is that FFP & SofTrak did not seem to be able to communicate to get our packages out in a timely and accurate fashion. So we switched ALL operations to FFP, and shortly thereafter SofTrak went out of business. Then FFP quoted us DHL shipping rates for express shipping that looked really good, and turned out (we found out when customers started complaining) to be that DHL picked the packages up, and then dropped them in the US Mail! We put a stop to this in a hurry, but the damage was done, including promoting shipping rates that were not achievable internationally. If you know much about business, you will know also that a phenomenal number of companies big and small use fulfillment houses to take calls, orders, warehouse product, and ship it. Everyone told us this was the right move. And as I said, FFP did keep getting better, however slowly. Then Black Friday, February 7, 1997, I received a call at 11:30 am that I will never forget. It went like this: Cheerfully: "Hi, this is Mel. We need you to bring us a cashier's check and come get your inventory. We are closing our doors at the end of business today." It went downhill from there. The owner, Verna Brown, who also owns and runs an employment service known as "Absolute Employment" would not speak with me. The invoice they sent us was wrong just like every other invoice they had ever sent us (Which is why we sometimes paid them late, because we had spent time figuring out what was wrong). We had even hired a gal here that spent nearly full time managing our relationship with them, trying to train them. They seemed like good people. Until this. I hate false pretenses. On the other hand I will work with anyone whom I find tells me the truth at all times. I spent the rest of Friday, and most of Monday trying to find out what the correct amount we owed them was, because they were holding our entire inventory hostage for payment. The amount went up every time I spoke with FFP. They gave me the name and number of their attorney, a company named Plasters & Williams, PC in Greeley Colorado. Neither Tembor Williams, nor Jim Plasters were in when I called, so I spoke with Dave Plasters. He listened politely, and said he would get back to me. He did not, and avoided my calls after this although I managed to talk to him a few times. He was completely unhelpful. Friday I rented a very large truck and arranged for a forklift, and continued to try to communicate with someone, anyone, to try to get the correct amount figured out so I could bring a check fetch our inventory. No luck all day Friday, until Monday. I had a terrible weekend of worry. Finally I just went to the bank, took out virtually all the cash we had on hand and drove up to FFP in the rented truck to try to work it out face to face. As a result some payments that we owed other people did not go out on time. I hate not paying bills on time. But people do it to us all the time... we are always working on receivables. (I don't understand it. If we are not careful our whole society will come crashing down over this. It is usually the big companies that have the money, holding it one more day, one more week for a few lousy more pennies of interest. Or just saying, No, I won't pay. Sorry, your problem. You shouldn't have done business with us if you didn't want to deliver something for nothing [someone actually had the gall to tell me this. I hear variations on the theme all the time]. They promise to pay in 10, 30, 60, 90, 180 days or longer.. and then say, "sorry we never saw an invoice please send us one", and the clock starts again! Do they really think we would forget to send a bill? We are even told this sometimes when we have confirmation that they did get the bill! Government workers call us and ask for the government discount, with the best of intentions... we tell them there is none, you pay the same as anyone else, you are lucky there is not a government surcharge! Why? We say because so often it takes forever to get paid, including collections efforts on our part. Then they still take the "quick pay" discount despite laws to the contrary.) This very issue of receivables is what that shut FFP down... non-payment by a big company that everyone knows could pay. But it still was no excuse for the way FFP treated WGS. Most of our payment was not yet due, and the part that was due, I could prove was an incorrect figure. After some talk, and Mel asking me to leave, both Verna Brown and I separately ended up calling the police who came, but claimed it was a civil matter (actually I thought it rather uncivil). All I wanted was a reasonable face to face discussion to work out the final price which I was ready to pay on the spot, in cash. Verna wanted what she wanted with no discussion. I finally made the decision and paid FFP off at their full demanded ransom amount, which fortunately was far less than the value of the inventory. At least they helped me to load the truck. If we at WGS had lost our inventory, and not been able to ship to customers, we would have been out of business very quickly. I had no choice but to pay them off. Our attorney told us that if we tried to use legal means to obtain our inventory, it would take weeks to get it, if we got it at all, and in any case it would probably end up costing more than the ransom amount they wanted. We finally got most of our inventory, but not everything, the rest seems to have just disappeared. We even got a box of stuff that was not ours, but we cannot tell whose it is to return it to them. We managed to get our 800# switched back to our offices on Friday, and immediately our sales volume for the following days tripled over anything FFP had ever done, which I attribute to our better handling of the phones. There is still a problem though. Thursday the 6th, and Friday the 7th FFP took our calls, and all weekend following their "Please Hold" message kept repeating in our customer's ears who called the toll number (970-346-4603) on our Web site, and in a number of advertisements. Of course the is the line that international customers would call, not being able access the 800#. Several people at FFP repeatedly assured me that the message would be changed to "This number is no longer in service, please call 303-693-3321", but it has yet to occur. It did finally get changed from "Please Hold" to "This number currently not available, please try again" after numerous complaints, but unfortunately this is not a lot better. The phone company would not help, even after our attorney called them. **PLEASE READ THIS even if you don't read anything else** If any customers tried to call us February 6-11, and have not been served, please accept my heartfelt apology, and call us to let us know what we can do to make it right. We do not have complete records for those days. If there is still anyone who called in the 6 months or so before that time, and does not feel that they were properly served, we would like to hear from you too. We have shifted our phone hours back to 8am-5pm Monday through Friday, 5 days a week USA Mountain Time from the 24 hour 7 day service we had before. We hope that the secure on-line ordering on our Web server with more complete information, and the improved service during the hours the phone lines are currently open will more than make up for this reduction in available "human" phone hours. We will expand the hours again when we have the volume needed to replace our phone system, and hire enough staff to answer the lines around the clock. We will not let anyone else handle our telephone calls again, and we have hired a few additional personnel to help our customers in the courteous, professional, timely and knowledgeable manner that they deserve and expect. So what happened with the van load of inventory? Fortunately I have a very large garage at my home, and I unloaded it there with the rented forklift and a pallet jack. The forklift was 1 inch too tall to go into the garage... It would fit loaded... but I knew better. Then we proceeded to pack and ship, moving things to the office as needed. This was the case for 3 weeks, and nearly drove us crazy. We have since done serious research, and have once again contracted a fulfillment house that has been in business for a very long time, with a good reputation, and strong financial statements to inventory, pack and ship our products... but not for customer contact. I rented the truck and forklift once again about a week ago and moved the inventory to CODA (the new people). Amazingly the same model forklift was a little shorter (they said the actual same one, but it couldn't have been)... and I could go right into the garage this time. The pallet jack worked better too, it actually went down when I pulled the lever, unlike the one I had used before that needed a screwdriver poked into the works to go down. It is quite a feeling having 2000 pounds coming at you on a pallet jack ... the only way to stop it is let it down, and the only way to do that was to poke a screwdriver in the right place at the right time! Please forgive us for any difficulties the above situation may have caused you. It was not our intention that it turn out as it did, but we are now back on track. -- -This month's LinuxMall specials: UseLinux video tape, Linus on "Future of the Linux Kernel" If you are considering selling a product, any product into the Linux Market, you will want to see this tape. We should have it back from the duplicator about the time you read this. We are reproducing it and making it available at a no profit price. It is not professionally done, as it was originally recorded for my own use only.. but there is no other record, and people came to me and demanded I make the tape available to them. What is on the tape: - Short intro by Virginia Lane, VP WGS - Linus Torvalds, The Future of the Linux Kernel 1.5 hours - Mark Bolzern, Linux: What it is, and Why it is significant .5 hours - Don Rosenberg, Linux and distribution channels: 1 hour Ways to enter the Commercial market - Jon "maddog" Hall, Using Linux in your business: 1.5 hours a Business Justification - Jon "maddog" Hall, Bob Young The Linux Market: 1.5 hours Who, What, Where, When and Why In the last session, Bob Young, President of Red Hat software goes through his calculations of the size of the Linux market, and arrives at figures to support as many as up to Six Million users already. Figures supplied independently by some of the users of FreeBSD concur, as do my own calculations, so this number is arrived at by several completely independent calculations using different supporting evidence. Item is at http://www.LinuxMall.com/Allprod/00128.html -- To keep up the Linux promotional work, money must be spent. In order to make money we sell any and all the excellent Linux items we can find, so any time you need or want a Linux related item, check us out at the Linux Shopping Mall! Remember that your purchase not only gets you a great product at a good price, but it also supports the advancement of Linux in a very significant way. Not to mention the frequent buyer points! About the specials... in order to get these prices you **MUST** provide the offer code WEX021 when you contact us. A Shipping & Handling charge will also be added to the price listed so that we can send it to you in a decent box that will protect the product. If you order from another country, you will be responsible for duty. Offer # WEX021 Quantities are limited. Prices expire March 31, 1997, or when current supplies run out. This is NOT a complete list of what we carry. Item# Offer: ----> 10% off ALL O'Reilly books bought on-line. 25% off if buying a newer edition of a book you already own, send us its cover (Fax ok) 00171--Tri-Linux CD, one CD with RedHat 4.1, Debian 1.2 & Slackware 3.1 $3 The $3 price is valid only if ordered online, $9.95 if by phone Anyone who bought a previous version of Debian from us and turned in the registration may have this CD for free... providing they will pay shipping & request it via E-Mail. 00128--Video from UseLinux, Linus, "Future of the Linux Kernel"....... $29 Mark, Don, maddog, Bob and more. See above for full description. 00059--X-Inside Common Desktop with Motif 1.2.5 at .................. $189 00103--Red Hat Official Linux version 4.1 with Metro-X, $49, on sale $39 v4.0-InfoWorld's Operating System of the year! Includes printed Manual 00106--Caldera Open Linux Base ... Caldera "the next generation"...... $55 00099--Caldera Internet Office Suite WordPerfect/NExS,Z-Mail,Motif....$219 00094--Caldera WABI, run Microsoft Windows 16bit software on Linux .. $199 00098--Caldera Word Perfect/Motif bundle .............................$129 00078--ApplixWare GUI Office Suite Professional Edition $495, on sale $189 Includes Free upgrade to version 4.3 office as soon as available. 00079--ApplixWare GUI Office Suite Education Edition $79, on sale at $69 (same as Pro Ed, fax of student id or staff id proves that you qualify upgrade to 4.3 when available at $25 for media only or $45 man/media) The above are our featured items this month. If you wish to purchase ANY Linux related items visit http://www.LinuxMall.com and browse our catalog. If you do not find what you want, please let us know. You can also email sales@wgs.com, call 800-234-7813, or 303-693-3321, or Fax 303-699-2893. Our order call center operates Monday-Friday 8am-5pm US Mountain Time. === The "Linux Newsletter" is intended to keep you current with what is going on inside & outside the Linux community. We believe that "The LINUX Way" embodies the FREEDOM to choose. Our perspective is one of reporting substantial occurrences that affect acceptance of Linux. This includes significant commercial product releases. We are strongly in favor of Linux and its related products in a homogeneous network with, or as a viable alternative to, other operating systems and products. We intend not only to report on the market, but to help create it by dissemination of information and presentation of opportunities. The author is Mark Bolzern. If you want to know a more about me (many have asked), visit http://www.LinuxMall.com/announce.html, read the bottom item. Back issues of the Linux Newsletter can also be found at the above URL. == If you received this newsletter direct from us via E-Mail you are already subscribed. If you received it by any other means and wish to subscribe to this FREE newsletter, send email to wgsnews@wgs.com with "SUBSCRIBE" in the subject line or first line of the body of the message. If you wish to receive a simple notification that the next issue is available on our web site, that too can be arranged... just send a message to wgsnews@wgs.com containing in the subject line of first line of the body of the message the word "NOTIFY". Your status is always that of the last message you sent - If you wish to unsubscribe, email to wgsnews@wgs.com the original message that you received, and put "REMOVE" or "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the subject line. Returning the message you got insures that we can remove the right address from our files. Without the original address, often email forwarding will fool us, resulting in annoyance on all sides. We do check our addresses and do NOT send duplicates, nor do we fail to remove people who ask it from the list. We are NOT interested in angering people, as that is counter productive... Our objective is to serve and inform those who wish it. -- WorkGroup Solutions, Inc. News Account mailto:wgsnews@wgs.com Find all your Linux needs at the All-Linux Shopping Mall http://www.LinuxMall.com mailto:info@wgs.com Tel: 303-699-7470 Orders: 800-234-7813 or 303-693-3321 Fax: 303-699-2793 From popmail Fri Mar 14 19:53:23 1997 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 17:33:51 +1300 To: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Re: repercussions of ITAR and SAFE on Linux, Internet and Business (fwd) From: Paul Foley Status: O On Thu, 13 Mar 1997 11:28:49 -0800 (PST), Allen Francom wrote: While we're talking about encryption I would just like to mention a really powerful technique that exemplifies why regulations can't matter in reality. Tom Clancy, the famous author of spy books, had a great encryption method whereby you record CD's with background radiation noise from radio telescopes. A "One Time Pad". If anyone's thinking of using this, note that radio-telescope noise is a particularly bad source of data :-) Granted, this is a logistics problem for generic applications, but the point is, clearly, anyone who wants to be protected for real, will be, and nothing can stop it. Anyone who wants to be protected and is willing to take the necessary care can be, that's true. Unfortunately, most people know very little about cryptography and are willing to put their trust in whoever shouts the loudest about their latest "unbreakable" crypto, or won't trust any crypto at all (NSA can read everything, otherwise it'd be illegal. Any PGP later than 2.3a is "compromised"). Many simply can't count (48 bits is 8 times harder than 40 bits.) Also, depending on your threat model, TEMPEST may be a worry. Emissions control is a much greater problem than physical security or crypto. The whole issue seems to be to focus the masses at a few select methods that are somewhat breakable if need be. PGP, RSA, etc., I don't have complete faith that public key systems are really "hard", but I seriously doubt that RSA (with a reasonable key length) is "somewhat breakable" today. There are clearly better stronger methods. The OTP is the only truly unbreakable system. The difficulties are getting a lot of good non-biased keying data and the ever-present key distribution problem. Strong ciphers like IDEA, used in PGP, though not theoretically unbreakable, don't have any known attack better than brute force. DES has too short a key, and specialized hardware (which the NSA, at least, undoubtedly has) could brute it in a few hours for reasonable expense, but 128 bit ciphers are quite common, and those will not be brute forced. Triple-DES, with 112 bit keyspace, is also a good choice, and I doubt any useful cryptanalytic attack on DES will be forthcoming (after 20 years of concerted effort, the best attack I'm aware of requires 2^47 chosen plaintexts) The best are the ones that very few even know about. Security through obscurity is foolish. I know due to the nature of computer systems, routers, and the whole Internet, what I'm suggesting is bad, technologically. Philosophically not so bad, I believe. I see it the other way around. Anonymity is important. So, more important in my book is really the infrastructure itself, and, give me leeway, "virtual-authenticated-point-to-point" connecitons. This is exactly what IPsec is about. -- Paul Foley --- PGPmail preferred PGP key ID 0x1CA3386D available from keyservers fingerprint = 4A 76 83 D8 99 BC ED 33 C5 02 81 C9 BF 7A 91 E8 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- A psychiatrist is a person who will give you expensive answers that your wife will give you for free. From popmail Fri Mar 14 20:00:08 1997 From: "Cary B. O'Brien" Subject: Re: repercussions of ITAR and SAFE on Linux, Internet and Business (fwd) To: linux-biz@lege.com Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 09:44:29 -0500 (EST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O > On Thu, 13 Mar 1997, Don Marti wrote: > > > On Fri, 14 Mar 1997, Paul Foley wrote: > > > > > True. It means that crypto in the kernel will likely be source code > > > that you download from elsewhere.. Perhaps Australia? That seem to > > > be a more reasonable country.. > > > > That's doesn't necessarily make it safe. From Apache Week a couple > > months ago (http://www.apacheweek.com/issues/96-12-20#crypto): > > > > > Incidentally, the NCSA server used to have 'hooks' in the code to > > > allow people to add PGP encryption. Despite they fact that this > > > server never included actual encryption technology, they were made > > > to remove these hooks by the US government. After this Apache also > > > removed its similar hooks. Brian Behlendorf, an Apache developer, > > > comments "No cryptographic source code was ever distributed by the > > > Apache project. Despite this, the Apache server code was deemed by > > > the NSA to violate the ITAR.". > > Perhaps, then, it will be necessary to have a kernel-crypto HOWTO > together with a crypto support kernel patch maintained abroad somewhere. > Among other things, the HOWTO can explain how to insert a crypto hook > in the kernel code. > I think that this might not be the best approach. Just imagine if someone says "look-- crypto hooks in this software -- cant export it" when they look at the kernel. A better approach might be to use the Virtual Private Network/S/WAN type system. Setup a user-mode proxy server for the services you need, and have IT manage encryption/decryption. Just a thought.... -- cary cobrien@access.digex.net From popmail Fri Mar 14 20:01:35 1997 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 15:07:08 +0100 (MET) From: Leif Erlingsson To: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Debian rides Space Shuttle! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Status: O In case somebody missed this.... Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 06:03:42 GMT X-Original-Date: Wed, 19 Feb 97 17:27 PST From: bruce@pixar.com (Bruce Perens) Subject: Debian rides Space Shuttle! Reply-to: Bruce Perens Followup-to: comp.os.linux.misc Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.announce Organization: ? Approved: linux-announce@news.ornl.gov (Lars Wirzenius) Message-ID: X-Auth: PGPMoose V1.1 PGP comp.os.linux.announce iQBVAwUBMxEvQjiesvPHtqnBAQHQBgH/YHYWc40ttkfrdIQwaRSs67C9dQLTXLFP QTeIbqNfqsCidUaNh2hpqJiEkk8jQNJlbUqy4ZUapzjaX1cjkXH/rQ== =iTII -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- If you are friends with a member of the press, please pass this along with a request that they write about it. Thanks Bruce Perens Debian NEW COMPUTER OPERATING SYSTEM RIDES SPACE SHUTTLE Contact: Bruce Perens 510-215-3502 A radically different new computer operating system is controlling an experiment on a Space Shuttle mission in late March. The experiment tests "hydroponics", a way of growing plants without soil that could eventually provide oxygen and food to astronauts. The computer controlling the experiment runs "Debian GNU/Linux", an operating system built by a group of 200 volunteer computer programmers who tele-collaborated over the Internet and never met each other. The system has many earthly uses - it can replace conventional operating systems such as Microsoft's "Windows 95" on personal computers. In a departure from conventional operating system practice, the volunteer group is giving the system and all of its source code away for free. Details are available on the group's web site: http:/www.debian.org/ . "Linux is the modern successor to the Unix operating system developed by Bell Labs during the 1970's", said Bruce Perens, leader of the Debian project. "A Finnish college student started Linux in the early 1990's, and was joined by others on the Internet who helped develop the system. We united Linux with free software contributed by other volunteers to make a complete system of 800 software packages. The result communicates on the Internet and includes, for free, many normally-expensive programs such as web servers, computer languages like Java, C, and C++, and many other programs". The space shuttle experiment will fly on mission STS-83 in late March and early April. Sebastian Kuzminsky is an engineer working on the computer that controls the experiment, which is operated by Biosciences Corporation. Kuzminsky said "The experiment studies the growth of plants in microgravity. It uses a miniature '486 PC-compatible computer, the Ampro CoreModule 4DXi. Debian GNU/Linux is loaded on this system in place of DOS or Windows. The fragility and power drain of disk drives ruled them out for this experiment, and a solid-state disk replacement from the SanDisk company is used in their place. The entire system uses only 10 watts", said Kuzminsky, as much electricity as a night-light. "The computer controls an experiment in hydroponics, or the growth of plants without soil", said Kuzminsky. "It controls water and light for the growing plants, and sends telemetry and video of the plants to the ground". Educators have also gravitated to the "Debian GNU/Linux" system. David Teague, a computer prof at Western Carolina University, says "most of the laboratories in our CS department run Debian. We use it to teach programming, operating systems, system administration, and web page design". Schools from the primary grades to college use the system to provide inexpensive Internet access to their students. "Most of us are computer professionals, but we produced Debian GNU/Linux as a hobby project", said Perens, who works as a graphics programmer for the company that made "Toy Story". "It started out three years ago as a loose collaboration of 60 people who had communicated on the Internet but had never met each other. We were dissatisfied with the operating systems available to us, which had not kept pace with the development of our computer hardware. We felt that the 'net had become so big that we could bring a group of volunteer programmers together on it to produce things that had only been made by huge companies up to now. We hoped that lots of people would put the system we created to serious use, but we couldn't advertise it except by making a web page and talking about it on the Internet. It didn't take long for us to pick up thousands of users, and for the volunteer staff to swell to 200 programmers from all over the world. People were taking Microsoft off of their systems to install Debian". Today the system has spawned its own non-profit organization, "Software in the Public Interest", to support further development. The members come from every continent in the world. "We're still interested in picking up more volunteers", said Perens, "and we always welcome new users". People interested in the system can learn about "Debian GNU/Linux" on the group's web site "www.debian.org". The web site provides free downloads of the entire system, and instructions on installing it. - -- Bruce Perens K6BP Bruce@Pixar.com 510-215-3502 Finger bruce@master.Debian.org for PGP public key. PGP fingerprint = 88 6A 15 D0 65 D4 A3 A6 1F 89 6A 76 95 24 87 B3 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBMxEuW4QRll5MupLRAQEmAAP7Btbm91qonYlpyaOF1TKGavPY5Des9b/6 YnHV5fILHoCWcYAoJ8TQdh7Qm9/kvicnZ9pQfeG898qCi0G0SzfCcjSzh4Rr2aL3 3cyaFUEG6pLejpbvzaWgH190bPLrebyOxG+XCau9sE/DEUNaTQamh8zAyLMca5Jf IB3+zTnpgxs= =xPCQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- This article has been digitally signed by the moderator, using PGP. http://www.iki.fi/liw/lars-public-key.asc has PGP key for validating signature. Send submissions for comp.os.linux.announce to: linux-announce@news.ornl.gov PLEASE remember a short description of the software and the LOCATION. This group is archived at http://www.iki.fi/liw/linux/cola.html == Leif Erlingsson http://www.lege.com +46 8 604-0995 FAX +46 8 605-2551 pgp -kvc leif@lege.com DB 47 2F B1 F8 6B E5 92 7A 97 5C C8 7E 62 CA 7C Stockholm, Sweden, Tellus, Milky Way, Gods Universe. From popmail Fri Mar 14 22:01:20 1997 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 19:46:34 +0100 (MET) From: Magnus Lycka To: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Linux@CeBIT97? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Does anyone know if there are any interesting Linux-related stuff at the ongoing CeBIT fair in Hannover? I know Caldera is present together with Star Division, Software AG and some US group. Anything else? Magnus ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Magnus Lycka, Magnus.Lycka@tripnet.se, http://www.tripnet.se/home/mly Stortfjallsgatan 12, S-431 35 Molndal, Sweden. Tel: +46 (0)31 87 35 40 From popmail Sat Mar 15 07:39:16 1997 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 09:35:57 -0800 (PST) From: Dwight Johnson To: "Cary B. O'Brien" , Linux-Business Subject: Re: repercussions of ITAR and SAFE on Linux, Internet and Business (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO On Fri, 14 Mar 1997, Cary B. O'Brien wrote: Dwight Johnson wrote: > > Perhaps, then, it will be necessary to have a kernel-crypto HOWTO > > together with a crypto support kernel patch maintained abroad somewhere. > > Among other things, the HOWTO can explain how to insert a crypto hook > > in the kernel code. > > > > I think that this might not be the best approach. Just imagine > if someone says "look-- crypto hooks in this software -- cant export it" > when they look at the kernel. I don't follow this inference when the entire point of my idea is that there will *not* be a hook for crypto in the Linux kernel. *Instead*, the HOWTO will explain to the user how to make one for himself in his implementation of the kernel. > > A better approach might be to use the Virtual Private Network/S/WAN > type system. Setup a user-mode proxy server for the services you > need, and have IT manage encryption/decryption. How would this work precisely? Dwight From popmail Sat Mar 15 07:41:33 1997 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 13:55:53 -0800 (PST) From: Allen Francom To: Dwight Johnson cc: "Cary B. O'Brien" , Linux-Business Subject: Re: repercussions of ITAR and SAFE on Linux, Internet and Business (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO On Fri, 14 Mar 1997, Dwight Johnson wrote: > On Fri, 14 Mar 1997, Cary B. O'Brien wrote: > > Dwight Johnson wrote: > > > Among other things, the HOWTO can explain how to insert a crypto hook > > > in the kernel code. > > > > I think that this might not be the best approach. Just imagine > > if someone says "look-- crypto hooks in this software -- cant export it" > > when they look at the kernel. > > I don't follow this inference when the entire point of my idea is > that there will *not* be a hook for crypto in the Linux kernel. *Instead*, > the HOWTO will explain to the user how to make one for himself in > his implementation of the kernel. > > > > > A better approach might be to use the Virtual Private Network/S/WAN > > type system. Setup a user-mode proxy server for the services you > > need, and have IT manage encryption/decryption. > > How would this work precisely? > My understanding is that you configure your router so that traffic to "friends" goes through a special gateway PC. Your friends need the same software running on their special gateway too. All traffic between the special gateways in encrypted, thus you have a Virtual Private Network, and there's no need (ha ha) for things like Secure Shell or Secure Sockets since your whole WAN connection is secure. Bulk Efficiency... Richard Chase @ DataFellows has been trying to sell it to me. Great but not exactly what I need right now, unfortunate because I'd love to have it. BTW - While I've been in this thread I've been a total bozo and completely missed the WHY about having crypto stuff in the kernel itself. Is it for having something like VPN ? THX -AEF From popmail Sat Mar 15 15:01:54 1997 Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 11:22:58 +0200 (SAT) From: Daniel Chalef To: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Encryption, ITAR etc MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Hi all I'd like to thank everybody who responded to me privately, and also those that started a lively discussion on the list. I am sure we all feel very strongly about our rights as citizens, and how our respective governments balance these rights. Thankyou you all for your comments, and keep pressuring your repsective governments to ensure that encryption technologies are free to be used, studied, and distributed. Regards Daniel -- Daniel Chalef daniel@uunet.co.za UUNET Internet Africa Operations +27 21 6896242 x2231 finger danielc@speedy.iafrica.com for pgp key From popmail Fri Mar 21 20:50:34 1997 Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 12:05:51 +0100 (MET) From: Leif Erlingsson To: linux-biz@lege.com cc: Bernd-Michael Koll Subject: Anyone know of script/program to do sanity-check of Unix system? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Status: O Anyone? The script/program should probably be run regularly from cron. Please send Cc to Bernd-Michael Koll , who needs to know. Thanks! == Leif Erlingsson http://www.lege.com +46 8 604-0995 FAX +46 8 605-2551 pgp -kvc leif@lege.com DB 47 2F B1 F8 6B E5 92 7A 97 5C C8 7E 62 CA 7C Stockholm, Sweden, Tellus, Milky Way, Gods Universe. From popmail Fri Mar 21 20:52:28 1997 Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 14:18:57 +0100 (MET) From: Kristof Van Damme To: Leif Erlingsson cc: linux-biz@lege.com, Bernd-Michael Koll Subject: Re: Anyone know of script/program to do sanity-check of Unix system? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O On Fri, 21 Mar 1997, Leif Erlingsson wrote: > Anyone? The script/program should probably be run regularly from cron. Depends on what you mean by "sanity check". If you're looking for a security auditing program, try COPS (never had the time to try it myself, unfortunately). Aeneas ---------------------------------------------------------------------- |Kristof Van Damme The Reference NV | |System Administrator http://www.reference.be | |e-mail: aeneas@reference.be Onderstraat 36 | |voice: +32 9 2340536 9000 Gent | |fax: +32 9 2340537 Belgium | |- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - | | Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, | | poorly. | | -- Henry Spencer | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From popmail Sat Mar 22 23:02:42 1997 Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 20:20:15 +0100 (MET) From: Leif Erlingsson To: linux-biz@lege.com cc: Anders Wass , Christina Isaksson Subject: MySQL Database server (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Interesting! - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: 22 Mar 1997 12:44:27 GMT From: "Robert V. Schipper" Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.announce Subject: MySQL Database server Followup-To: comp.os.linux.misc With the author's permission I have uploaded to sunsite.unc.edu /pub/Linux/apps/databases the archive mysql-3.20.13-beta.tar.gz with the source code to MySQL, a very fast, multi-threaded SQL database server under active development. Although still in beta, MySQL is already very stable and is being used at a steadily increasing number of sites. To compile under Linux one needs a kernel 2.[0|1].x with Francois Xavier's LinuxThreads installed. (linuxthreads.tar.gz can be found at http://www.tcx.se, together with the latest release of MySQL and related packages). Below is some basic information from the FAQ (included in the distribution). What is MySQL? ============== MySQL is a SQL (Structured Query Language) database server. It was written by Michael (monty) Widenius. MySQL's API's (C and Perl) are a superset of mSQL's, which makes porting of mSQL apps very simple. MySQL is distributed with source code and is free for commercial and non-commercial use so long you do not sell it in any form (see the file PUBLIC for details on the license). But for commercial use buying a support contract is very welcome. Support in this context means both support of further MySQL development and TcX's support of you. See the FAQ for details. http://www.tcx.se/ is MySQL's home page, where the latest release can always be found (source and binaries), also for related packages. There are also several ftp sites where all related files can be found, the primary site being ftp.sunet.se /pub/unix/databases/relational/mysql. The source code of MySQL can also be found at sunsite.unc.edu under /pub/Linux/apps/databases (present release is mysql-3.20.13-beta.tar.gz). There is an active mailing list (mysql@tcx.se). Details on subscribing can be found at MySQL's home page and in the FAQ. Main features ============= * Multi-threading. * Join optimizer with one-sweep multi-join (all joins made in one pass). * A privilege and password system which is very flexible (the mysql database). * All password traffic on the net is encrypted. * Fixed and variable length records. * 16 keys/table. Each key may consist of 1 to 15 columns. Max key length is 127 bytes, but may be increased to 500 by changeing one line of source. `CREATE TABLE' supports the `PRIMARY KEY (columns)', `INDEX (columns)' and `UNIQUE (columns)' syntaxes. A `PRIMARY KEY' is always `UNIQUE'. A key may be a prefix of a CHAR field. * All columns have default values. One can always use INSERT on any subset of columns. * ODBC Open-DataBase-Connectivity for Windows95 (with source). * Almost all ODBC functions (and lots of others). Functions are implemented through a very optimized class library and should be as fast as they can get! Usually there shouldn't be any memory allocation after the query initialization. * Very fast B-tree disk tables. * In memory hash tables always used as temporary tables. * Can handle big databases (we are using MySQL with some databases with 50,000,000 records). * C and Perl API (The Perl API is a superset of the mSQL Perl API). Other languages with mSQL bindings should be simple to add * Uses GNU autoconfig for portability. * Written in C and C++. Tested with gcc 2.7.2.1. * A thread based malloc system (very fast and no memory trashing). * No memory leaks (tested with purify). * A very fast table check and repair utility (`isamchk'). * All data saved in ISO8859_1 format. All comparisons for normal string columns are case insensitive. * Full ISO8859_1 (Latin1) support. For example Scandinavian text is allowed in table and column names. * Sorts by ISO8859_1 Latin1 (The swedish way for the moment). It is possible to change this in the source by adding new sort order arrays. * Alias on tables and columns as in the SQL92 standard. * Support for functions in the fields part of the select. Example `SELECT (column1+column2) FROM table' * Support for group functions (`SUM', `MAX', `MIN', `AVG' & `COUNT'). * User commands as `SHOW tables', `SHOW keys FROM table' and `SHOW columns FROM table' * `INSERT',`UPDATE' and `DELETE' returns how many rows were affected. * Functions names don't clash with table or column names. (For example ABS is a valid column name). The only restriction is that space is not allowed between a function name and the '(' when using functions. * The client uses a socket or TCP connection when connecting to server. Enjoy! Rob Schipper (rvs@gol.com) - -- This article has been digitally signed by the moderator, using PGP. http://www.iki.fi/liw/lars-public-key.asc has PGP key for validating signature. Send submissions for comp.os.linux.announce to: linux-announce@news.ornl.gov PLEASE remember a short description of the software and the LOCATION. This group is archived at http://www.iki.fi/liw/linux/cola.html - ------------------------pgp-status-report--------------------------------- | E-Mail has signature. Public key is required to check signature. | Good signature from user "Lars Wirzenius ". | Signature made 1997/03/22 12:44 GMT using 1024-bit key, key ID 4CBA92D1 - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: latin1 iQCVAgUBMzQw8A0882B94nEhAQF9MAP+O/u9OSj/xgr7ArhK03eIaWH0P4+ybxVt RUn988+WkyEN1VdJN/8u2ETK/Py0lfbqq+tCCdgevMeZVyYLjk0rni53xqvnkX/H 2a27vl4mpkzALZVckm3HCikR+YqBk8YYBEhBR2hBi8xJcF8YZR/hVcG6GTBTBPGL 4lNzR4FS9sw= =HDUG -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Please contact for Public Key, if you don't have it. ID: 1024/7DE27121 1996/08/17 Leif Erlingsson From popmail Tue Mar 25 19:02:09 1997 Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 17:09:40 +0100 (MET) From: Kristof Van Damme To: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: netscape servers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Hi, First of all I would like to say that I support Netscape in its battle against M$ and I'm grateful that they make Navigator/Communicator available for Linux. Nevertheless I was a bit disappointed when I saw none of their server products runs on Linux. They have a page available, describing the platforms their server software runs on: http://home.netscape.com/comprod/server_central/product/pricing/index.html I know they will port one of their webservers (think it was fasttrack) to Caldera Linux, but until now that seems to be the only exception. I wonder why. Is it because they think linux users always want their software for free? Is it because their partners (SUN for instance) wouldn't like another competitor in the UNIX market and they don't want to offend them? What can we do to make them change their mind? Aeneas ---------------------------------------------------------------------- |Kristof Van Damme The Reference NV | |System Administrator http://www.reference.be | |e-mail: aeneas@reference.be Onderstraat 36 | |voice: +32 9 2340536 9000 Gent | |fax: +32 9 2340537 Belgium | |- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - | | Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, | | poorly. | | -- Henry Spencer | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From popmail Tue Mar 25 21:10:46 1997 Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 10:52:57 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Dillon To: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Re: netscape servers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO On Tue, 25 Mar 1997, Kristof Van Damme wrote: > I wonder why. Is it because they think linux users always want their > software for free? Yes. > What can we do to make them change their mind? Buy Caldera Linux, tell your friends to buy Caldera and always ask the Caldera sales rep when the Netscape server suite will be available. Michael Dillon - Internet & ISP Consulting Memra Software Inc. - Fax: +1-250-546-3049 http://www.memra.com - E-mail: michael@memra.com From popmail Wed Mar 26 16:26:06 1997 Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 12:08:22 -0800 From: Neil Schneider MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Michael Dillon CC: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Re: netscape servers Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO Michael Dillon wrote: > > What can we do to make them change their mind? > > Buy Caldera Linux, tell your friends to buy Caldera and always ask the > Caldera sales rep when the Netscape server suite will be available. Is this a Caldera advocacy group? -- PacNeil@worldnet.att.net * Life is what happens to you Neil Schneider * while you're busy making other plans Poway, CA USA * From popmail Wed Mar 26 16:28:11 1997 Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 14:03:15 +0200 (SAT) From: Louis Mandelstam To: linux-biz@lege.com, server-linux@netspace.org cc: Dr Evan Summers , Alex Harin Subject: Web-based mail server? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Hi all - I'm looking for a mail reading agent that talks to clients using HTTP, essentially using current media terminology, I guess you'd call it an "intranet mail server". Idea is this: Instead of using pop3/imap and smtp to let client workstations read/send email, I'd like to have them use http to a server with forms to enter email etc. Something like one would find running at, say hotmail.com Anyone know of such a package, commercial or free? I don't see why this needs to be very complex to put together. Thanks. ---------------------------------------------------------------|-----|-- Louis Mandelstam Tel +27 83 227-0712 Symphony /|\ /|\ Internet systems integration http://sr.co.za Research { } { } Johannesburg, South Africa mailto:louis@sr.co.za (Pty)Ltd {___} {___} From popmail Wed Mar 26 16:28:18 1997 Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 06:47:14 -0500 From: Paul Anderson Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Neil Schneider Cc: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Re: netscape servers Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO Neil Schneider wrote: > > Michael Dillon wrote: > > > > What can we do to make them change their mind? > > > > Buy Caldera Linux, tell your friends to buy Caldera and always ask the > > Caldera sales rep when the Netscape server suite will be available. > > Is this a Caldera advocacy group? > People I guess are free to spout their opinions on this list, as that is what it was created for. But, to reiterate my doubts, even if we all bought Caldera, and we all talked to our sales rep as is suggested, I highly doubt this will give Netscape (who makes the bulk of their revenue from servers) the business case to port to an OS that is given away. Netscape is a public company and whoever made that decision would be hung at the next stockholders meeting. And the members of the Linux community would die laughing at someone trying to sell a $5,000.00 server on a free OS. I'm afraid Apache will stay with Linux, whihc is still number one, by many percentage points, over MS and Netscape. Paul Anderson From popmail Wed Mar 26 16:29:32 1997 Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 14:03:50 +0100 (MET) From: Kristof Van Damme To: Paul Anderson cc: Neil Schneider , linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Re: netscape servers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO On Wed, 26 Mar 1997, Paul Anderson wrote: > But, to reiterate my doubts, even if we all bought Caldera, and we all > talked to our sales rep as is suggested, I highly doubt this will give > Netscape (who makes the bulk of their revenue from servers) the business > case to port to an OS that is given away. Netscape is a public company > and whoever made that decision would be hung at the next stockholders > meeting. I agree with you that this might be how Netscape thinks about Linux. Nevertheless I feel this is an incorrent way of thinking. Apache runs on commercial platforms as well, so that would make all the commercial webservers pretty useless. Nevertheless Netscape provides them. I wasn't just talking about webservers. Netscape has a whole bunch of server products (I got this from their site): SuiteSpot Family | Enterprise Server | Catalog Server | Directory Server | Proxy Server | Mail & Messaging Server | News & Collabra Server | Calendar Server | Media Server | Certificate Server | FastTrack Server None of them runs on Linux. Most of them do run on NT, Solaris, etc. Some of them don't have freeware alternatives. Even if there are freeware alternatives, that is still not a reason for Netscape not to port them. I fail to understand the argument that they don't want to port commercial software, simply because Linux is a free OS. > And the members of the Linux community would die laughing at someone > trying to sell a $5,000.00 server on a free OS. I wouldn't. Aeneas ---------------------------------------------------------------------- |Kristof Van Damme The Reference NV | |System Administrator http://www.reference.be | |e-mail: aeneas@reference.be Onderstraat 36 | |voice: +32 9 2340536 9000 Gent | |fax: +32 9 2340537 Belgium | |- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - | | Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, | | poorly. | | -- Henry Spencer | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From popmail Wed Mar 26 16:30:47 1997 Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 15:11:43 +0100 (MET) From: Paul Wouters To: Louis Mandelstam cc: linux-biz@lege.com, server-linux@netspace.org, Dr Evan Summers , Alex Harin Subject: Re: Web-based mail server? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO On Wed, 26 Mar 1997, Louis Mandelstam wrote: > Instead of using pop3/imap and smtp to let client workstations read/send > email, I'd like to have them use http to a server with forms to enter > email etc. Something like one would find running at, say hotmail.com ah so that's what they use to generate their spam at hotmail.com ;) > Anyone know of such a package, commercial or free? I don't see why this > needs to be very complex to put together. I dont see the advantadge of this really. you'll have to type in who you are all the time. A lot of things you dont want to set everytime (which your mail program normally does for you) need to be set. Paul From popmail Wed Mar 26 16:30:58 1997 Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 15:08:28 +0100 (MET) From: Paul Wouters To: Paul Anderson cc: Neil Schneider , linux-biz@lege.com Subject: Re: netscape servers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO On Wed, 26 Mar 1997, Paul Anderson wrote: > away. Netscape is a public company and whoever made that decision would > be hung at the next stockholders meeting. And the members of the Linux > community would die laughing at someone trying to sell a $5,000.00 > server on a free OS. I'm afraid Apache will stay with Linux, whihc is > still number one, by many percentage points, over MS and Netscape. Actually another reason is that on Solaris at least, it's as buggy as hell. It causes the 4 processor Sparc