From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Mar 8 09:38:40 2003 Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 09:38:40 +0100 (MET) From: Mail System Internal Data Subject: DON'T DELETE THIS MESSAGE -- FOLDER INTERNAL DATA X-IMAP: 0974540374 0000000663 This text is part of the internal format of your mail folder, and is not a real message. It is created automatically by the mail system software. If deleted, important folder data will be lost, and it will be re-created with the data reset to initial values. From popmail Sat Jan 23 06:03:57 1999 Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 01:17:55 +0100 (MET) From: Leif Erlingsson To: Linux Business Discussion Group X-URL: http://www.lege.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [linux-biz] FS Replication (fwd) X-Unsubscribe: send a blank message to linux-biz-off@lege.com X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 15 A non-subscriber wrote this reply, that may be interesting: (Reply-To: "W.F. Konynenberg" ) ________________________________________________________________ Leif Erlingsson, Katrinebergsvagen 70, 146 50 Tullinge, Sweden TEL +46 8 778-5038, MOB +46 709 14-0631, URL http://www.lege.com ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 21:26:44 +0000 From: "W.F. Konynenberg" To: Chris Tyler Cc: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: [linux-biz] FS Replication X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list Hello, You may want to have a look at the CODA network file system, which is available in the standard 2.1/2.2 kernel. It provides facilities such as server replication, automatic reconstruction (say you lost a disk in a server: replace the disk and CODA will reconstruct the contents from the replica's, can probably be abused for snapshot backup), load distribution, etc, basically RAID5 on network server level... Another nice thing is that it allows disconnected operation. A client without network connection to the server can still operate from the on-disk cache maintained by the CODA client software. A replicated server, when severed from its peer(s), can, as far as I understand, continue operation, and will attempt resynchronization with the peers once the connection is restored. (All of this info from memory from my quick reading of some on-line CODA documents some time ago, so no warranty on this info...) I think this just about covers everything you asked for... One point to note though: the CODA server is a user-level process which maintains its filesystem in its own storage structure, and the files are thus only accessible through CODA (I think this is necessary to allow the CODA server to resynchronize after disconnected operation). You cannot export an existing UNIX filesystem directly to CODA, you will have to create a CODA filesystem, and copy the contents of the existing filesystem into it. CODA is a Carnegy Mellon follow-up project to the Andrew File System. -- W.F. Konynenberg ------------------------------------------------------------------ Unsubscribe: To: linux-biz-request@lege.com, Subject: unsubscribe From popmail Sun Jan 24 12:01:13 1999 Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 00:25:00 -0800 (PST) From: Dwight Johnson To: Linux-Business MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [linux-biz] Load balancing on Linux? X-Unsubscribe: send a blank message to linux-biz-off@lege.com X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 16 Can anyone steer me toward some open-source Linux load balancing solutions? Thanks, Dwight -- http://linuxtoday.com ------------------------------------------------------------------ Unsubscribe: To: linux-biz-request@lege.com, Subject: unsubscribe From popmail Sun Jan 24 22:01:16 1999 Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 11:37:04 -0800 (PST) From: Dwight Johnson To: Linux-Business MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [linux-biz] Re: Load balancing on Linux? X-Unsubscribe: send a blank message to linux-biz-off@lege.com X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 17 On Sun, 24 Jan 1999, Dwight Johnson wrote: > Can anyone steer me toward some open-source Linux load balancing > solutions? In this case, I get to answer my own question. I found what I was looking for on Linas Vepstas' outstanding Enterprise Linux web pages: http://www.linas.org/linux/load.html The best open-source solution appears to be Eddie by Ericsson. We (Linux Today) had actually already published their release announcements and I had forgotten about it: http://linuxtoday.com/stories/1106.html http://linuxtoday.com/stories/1609.html Dwight -- http://linuxtoday.com ------------------------------------------------------------------ Unsubscribe: To: linux-biz-request@lege.com, Subject: unsubscribe From popmail Sun Jan 24 23:13:04 1999 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 10:07:19 +1300 To: linux-biz@lege.com From: Andrew McClure Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: [linux-biz] Linux Heads Toward Main Street X-Unsubscribe: send a blank message to linux-biz-off@lege.com X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 18 >LINUX HEADS TOWARD MAIN STREET >by Dave Murphy, member@itrain.org > >In the midst of growing Linux activity, Linux inventor Linus Torvalds plans >to announce Version 2.2.0 of the Linux kernel this coming week. >Version 2.2.0 features improvements in file systems, multiprocessing, and >security, as well as platform support for Sparc64, Alpha, and PowerPC. > >What's new with 2.2? Version 2.2.0 adds several features beyond >improved multiprocessor support that make Linux faster and more useful. > >Among the kernel improvements: > - Better support for RAID, arrays of hard disks that servers use to protect >data and speed disk access. > > - Better firewalls, the programs that protect internal networks from the >outside world. The new kernel makes Linux firewalls more powerful and >makes it easier to configure the firewall to do things like filter out >messages >coming from certain addresses. > > - Faster file access. Version 2.2.0 can store filenames in a high-speed cache >in memory, meaning that users won't have to wait for the computer to >retrieve the information off relatively slow hard disks. > > - More hardware support, particularly for high-speed connection equipment >such as Fibre Channel and Gigabit Ethernet. > > - Smoother memory management. Users won't notice as much lurching in >system speed as the computer moves data between its real memory and the >memory overflow on hard disks known as "swap files." > >Linux is quickly becoming a viable alternative to Microsoft's Windows NT >for corporate network services. Many advanced users already employ Linux >as a desktop operating system, and it's a potential competitor of Microsoft >Windows 98 as a desktop OS. > >I now use Red Hat Linux as a file and print server in one of the ITrain >offices. And we'll be installing Linux in our headquarters office to >supplement our currently-installed NetWare file servers. Although we use >state-of-the-art hardware with at least 128MB of RAM and 8.6GB or larger >disk drives, Linux runs just fine on a 386 box with 16-32MB of RAM and a >gigabyte or so of disk space. > >The Linux OS requires only a few hundred megabytes of disk space, the rest >of the disk space is used for file storage, swap files, and printing services. > >If you're in the IT business and you haven't tested Linux yet, get with it. >It's >the future of IT network services, and it's a snap to install and learn. I >suggest buying Red Hat Linux at beyond.com -- for about $35 what have >you got to lose? Sure you can download the software for free, but Red >Hat's manuals are easy to read and walk you through the installation in less >than 30 minutes. > >And don't let the cheap price fool you; Linux is a great networking OS. > >Red Hat: http://www.redhat.com/ >Linux Online: http://www.linux.org/ > >This article is posted to http://itrain.org/itinfo/it990123.html > > >Live well, do good, > >--Dave Murphy > >p.s. don't forget the ITINFO subscriber's survey at >http://itrain.org/itinfo/subscribe.html > >-------------------- > >The ITINFO newsletter is again accepting sponsors. >Each edition is is distributed via email and permanently >posted on the itrain.org website. > >Sponsorship details are posted at http://itrain.org/itinfo/ad.html > >---------- > >ITINFO is an electronic publication of >ITrain, the International Association of Information >Technology Trainers. Comments and submissions >to info@itrain.org. > >Previous issues are online at http://itrain.org/itinfo/ > >---------- > >To unsubscribe, email majordomo@itrain.org with a >1-line body: > UNSUBSCRIBE ITINFO email_address >[substituting the email address you subscribed to the list] > >Do not send subscription messages to any other address; >your request will not be processed. > >---------- > >We encourage you to copy this issue in its entirety >and share it with your friends and coworkers. > >Copyright (C) 1999, ITrain, All Rights Reserved > > > _____________________________________ Andrew McClure Software Engineer - Wellington NZ Phone +64 4 479 2002 Mobile +64 21 671 117 _____________________________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------ Unsubscribe: To: linux-biz-request@lege.com, Subject: unsubscribe From popmail Tue Jan 26 18:01:56 1999 Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 10:20:39 -0500 (EST) From: "Sean E. Millichamp" To: linux-biz@lege.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [linux-biz] Project Planning Software for Linux? X-Unsubscribe: send a blank message to linux-biz-off@lege.com X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 19 Hello everyone, My company needs to begin implementation of a project planning package at the request of one of our clients. Our client suggested a Windows based package but I'm leery of using a Windows based package since most networked Windows software seems to just use file sharing and giving them access to our Samba server is not something I'm keen on. Also, I'm on a quest to slowly eliminate all dependency on Windows software from our network so I can put Linux everywhere :) This is exactly what my boss wrote to me: --- OK I require a project monitoring package, reasonably priced, which will run under LINUX. Tell me what, and where do I procure this package and I will use a LINUX version. REQMTS: 1) Must work for both use from the client and our site. 2) Must have a hard copy reporting capability. 3) Does not need to support detail such as vacation time, sick time etc,. 4) Needs to be fairly easy to implement and use. --- I would add that it should probably have at least a web interface since we can't currently make all of our machines run Linux and I know the client won't. But I would expect any good package today to have a web based interface anyway. A Java client would work too. I searched a number of various Linux pages and I really couldn't find any reference to software that fit the bill... I figured if such a beast existed this list would know where to look :) Thanks for the help. Best, Sean ------------------------------------------ Sean E. Millichamp, Consultant Ingematics - A Division of Compu-Aid, Inc. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Unsubscribe: To: linux-biz-request@lege.com, Subject: unsubscribe From popmail Tue Jan 26 18:02:52 1999 Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 09:27:09 -0800 From: "Bradley J. Willson" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.34 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sean@compu-aid.com CC: linux-biz@lege.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [linux-biz] Re: Project Planning Software for Linux? X-Unsubscribe: send a blank message to linux-biz-off@lege.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 20 Sean E. Millichamp wrote: > > Hello everyone, > > My company needs to begin implementation of a project planning package at > the request of one of our clients. Our client suggested a Windows based > package but I'm leery of using a Windows based package since most > networked Windows software seems to just use file sharing and giving them > access to our Samba server is not something I'm keen on. Also, I'm on a > quest to slowly eliminate all dependency on Windows software from our > network so I can put Linux everywhere :) > > This is exactly what my boss wrote to me: > > --- > OK I require a project monitoring package, reasonably priced, which will > run under LINUX. Tell me what, and where do I procure this package and I > will use a LINUX version. > > REQMTS: > > 1) Must work for both use from the client and our site. > 2) Must have a hard copy reporting capability. > 3) Does not need to support detail such as vacation time, sick time etc,. > 4) Needs to be fairly easy to implement and use. > --- > > I would add that it should probably have at least a web interface since we > can't currently make all of our machines run Linux and I know the client > won't. But I would expect any good package today to have a web based > interface anyway. A Java client would work too. > > I searched a number of various Linux pages and I really couldn't find any > reference to software that fit the bill... I figured if such a beast > existed this list would know where to look :) > > Thanks for the help. > > Best, > Sean > > ------------------------------------------ > Sean E. Millichamp, Consultant > Ingematics - A Division of Compu-Aid, Inc. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > Unsubscribe: To: linux-biz-request@lege.com, Subject: unsubscribe A trip to http://www.linuxapps.com and a search one keywords project and planning rounded up several items to choose from. There is some chaff to go through, but project planning software is there. -- Regards, Bradley J. Willson d.b.a. Willson Consulting Services http://www.ifixcomputers.com A+ Authorized Service Center From popmail Tue Jan 26 18:11:06 1999 From: "Cary O'Brien" To: linux-biz@lege.com Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 11:48:05 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [linux-biz] Oracle Client Libraries? X-Unsubscribe: send a blank message to linux-biz-off@lege.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 21 How can I get oracle client libraries (specifically oratcl) for Linux. I know I can get Oracle 8 for Linux, but it's $1300! Can I buy one copy and redistribute the libraries? -- cary ------------------------------------------------------------------ Unsubscribe: To: linux-biz-request@lege.com, Subject: unsubscribe From popmail Wed Jan 27 20:01:15 1999 Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 10:38:27 -0800 From: "Bradley J. Willson" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.34 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Linux Business List , Linux User List Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------310F8BB6185984EF71CB9564" Subject: [linux-biz] [Fwd: NTools E-NewsFlash - PROTECT YOUR COMPANY CROWN JEWELS] X-Unsubscribe: send a blank message to linux-biz-off@lege.com X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 22 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------310F8BB6185984EF71CB9564 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit FYI - Something that applies to all of us, in practice anyway. -- Regards, Bradley J. Willson d.b.a. Willson Consulting Services http://www.ifixcomputers.com A+ Authorized Service Center --------------310F8BB6185984EF71CB9564 Content-Type: message/rfc822; name="nsmail36AF5D2101601BE" Content-Disposition: inline; filename="nsmail36AF5D2101601BE" Received: by animal.blarg.net (mbox cpu) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Wed Jan 27 01:00:29 1999) X-From_: bounce-nt-list-245551@lyris.sunbelt-software.com Tue Jan 26 19:34:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from poseidon.sunbelt-software.com (poseidon.sunbelt-software.com [207.90.4.68]) by animal.blarg.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id TAA32756 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 19:34:02 -0800 Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 10:35:29 Subject: NTools E-NewsFlash - PROTECT YOUR COMPANY CROWN JEWELS To: "Latest Win NT News" From: nt-list-admin@lyris.sunbelt-software.com List-Unsubscribe: Reply-To: comments@lyris.sunbelt-software.com Message-Id: Precedence: bulk MIME-Version: 1.0 ************************************************************** NTools E-NewsFlash - PROTECT YOUR COMPANY CROWN JEWELS ************************************************************** * IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT TO PREVENT DOWNTIME (and spend 5 minutes reading my damage report ) When we opened the Sunbelt Office in the USA five years ago, I did not know that Tampa Bay has a certain reputation. It is called the "Lightning Capital" of the World. In my innocence I assumed this referred to a hockey or football team. I was wrong and soon helped out of my dream. A unique atmospheric configuration gets us sunshine 95% of the days in the year, but also very regular thunderstorms. During the season it hits pretty much at the end of almost every day. Statistically our area gets more lightning hits per year than any other place on the planet. It's tens of thousands! Anybody buying an electrical appliance costing more than about twenty bucks also buys a surge protector for that TV, radio or computer. That is no luxury but a must. I was once again confronted with this phenomenon last weekend. On a particularly dark Saturday night the sky was crackling with lightning and it was thundering right above our heads. We experienced at least 8 brownouts in 30 minutes. I was wondering what the damage in the office would be. One of our Techs went in on Sunday and found the following: - Two ports on our brand new 100Mb switch were dead - 3 NIC's fried - The network was down - One board in our voice mail system burned out - One 8-port hub in a suite down the hall was fried And all that despite the fact we religiously protect all our machines as good as we can. We had spares for almost everything (except the switch) and after four hours of work on Sunday every- thing was back up again. But what if the storm would have hit on Tuesday morning 10am? I'm sure you understand where I'm getting at: DOWNTIME. In a small office like ours with about 35 computers and 25 staff we calculated the downtime cost. It's a thousand bucks -per hour- when Sunbelt USA sits on its hands waiting for the network or server to come back up. And that is peanuts really. Mission critical (web) servers can cost thousands -per minute- if they are down. So, you need to protect the "Crown Jewels" of your company and guarantee your users access to that data. The costs of this is relatively unimportant. You_cannot_afford_NOT_to_do_it. The tool you choose to prevent downtime has to be the most reliable and efficient. That is -really- the priority. I sent you this NewsFlash because there is a new version of a tool that we think is the best in the market to do just that. This product is called Double-Take and the new V3.0 features are making it the industry leader with I think a year's advantage over any other tool out there. For new subscribers: Sunbelt has no vested interests in any particular product. We can basically sell what we want. So what we do is pick the "Best of Breed" tools in each category so that you can integrate those in your environment. So, what is special about the new V3.0 of Double-Take? The developers have been in this business for quite a while, first for Novell and since '96 for NT as well. Double-Take is used by the three leading disaster recovery companies in the world. They implement Double-Take on the systems of their customers to get data off site to protect it. NEW: MULTI PLATFORM Early 1998 the developers took a hard look at the market and found what was needed and wanted in the future. You told them that you needed a whole slew of features, and that you also needed it multi-platform. The code at that time was not really ready for that. They decided to bite the bullet and rewrite a good chunk apart from the patented algorithms that had proved to work great. Having seen most of these tools, I can tell you that Double-Take V3.0 is everything you ever wanted in a Fault Tolerance utility. They really did a great job providing the features and flexibility, combined with an excellent and efficient architecture. It is a great solution that allows you to get data from one machine to one or more other systems and fail over when your source machine dies for whatever reason. You can now mirror data from NT to Solaris and back. Netware soon to follow. One console for all platforms, nice & easy. It combines great with Convoy Cluster Software too. NOTE: From my perspective Double-Take is the NEW MARKET LEADER. HIGHLY EFFICIENT ARCHITECTURE Let me give you a simple example why I think Double-Take has solved the problem smarter than some others. For instance the data that goes from one server to another can be handled in different ways. On the source side, Double-Take filters data before it goes to disk, sends it over the wire and writes it on the disk of the target machine just a tiny bit later than data gets written to the disk of your source machine. Data gets only written once on the source and once on the target in the Double-Take scenario. Now, let's look how for instance Octopus does it: On the source, data gets written to the file, but also to a log file on the source. Then the data gets transported over the wire, and written to a log file on the target. >From that log file on the target it gets written to the mirror-file. Result? Data gets written 4 times costing twice as many resources. You want to keep those resources available for your users on mission critical servers. There are crucial differences in the architecture of these products. We have created a detailed grid with a competitive analysis and I suggest you study that carefully. Print it out in landscape and spend 10 minutes comparing the features. You will see why Double-Take V3.0 is technically the most advanced product: High efficiency, requiring the least resources. Here is the grid, but there is more! http://www.sunbelt-software.com/dt_competitive_compar.htm FREE RESOURCE PLANNING TOOL One more highly interesting technical breakthrough you will get with this new version is the free Resource Planning Tool. It will allow you to install Double-Take (without a second server!) and actually SEE how much bandwidth you are going to need to get data off that machine. Very useful to say the least. Replication can occur in the following configurations: - One-to-One, Active/Standby (the target does nothing) - One-to-One, Active/Active (the target is also source) - Many-to-One - One-to-Many - Chained (A to B to C) - Single Machine (replicate data c:\ to d:\) HIGHLIGHT OF THE FEATURES - Strong scripting features with Double-Take Control Language - Full Function Command line and Text Client Interfaces - Replication from Solaris to NT and back (Novell later '99) - Connection Wizard that makes life -very- easy - Detailed Statistics about the process - You can backup open files on the target machine - Support for Microsoft Cluster Server - Multi-NIC support - Throttle the load on your LAN or WAN - Supports DES encryption - Supports NT Event Logs and SNMP - Drag and Drop configurations and fail-over - And there is much, much more. You will find an excellent White Paper with the 'Theory Of Operations', and a new Double-Take V3.0 PowerPoint presentation at this page: http://www.sunbelt-software.com/dtake.htm That's also the place where you can download the 30-day eval. Keep in mind, it's only a matter of time before some disaster strikes. When it does, will you be sufficiently protected? Download that eval! http://www.sunbelt-software.com/dtake.htm Warm regards, Stu ---attachment--------------------------------------------------- An abbreviated copy of the Press Release that went out this week with more specifics. Read the 'Additional Benefits Section'! "AWARD WINNING SERVER REPLICATION SOFTWARE NOW COVERS UNIX" HOBOKEN, N.J., Jan. 18 /PRNewswire/ -- NSI Software announced today version 3.0 of Double-Take, the company's award-winning server replication and server failover software. In line with NSI Software's strategy for embracing the burgeoning SAN/NAS market, a key feature of the new version is cross-platform replication. This initial multi-platform, cross-platform release of Double-Take will include Microsoft Windows NT (MSFT) and SUN Solaris (SUN) servers. High-Availability through system level monitoring and failover from NT-to-NT and Solaris-to-Solaris is also a primary feature of the software. "Customers have asked for a flexible, centralized, easy to manage server/data replication package -- with Double-Take 3.0 we have delivered that package and raised the bar on new features," Said John New, vice president of marketing for NSI Software. "The ease of centralized management, the ability to host native data from any supported NOS (Network Operating System) on any other NOS is truly remarkable, and will go a long way toward helping customers consolidate and optimize their data protection and disaster recovery plans." DATA REPLICATION FEATURES IN DOUBLE-TAKE 3.0 Double-Take's patented real-time data replication provides the following capabilities on top of the previous generation's award winning feature set: -- Cross Platform Storage Management with Unified Management Console GUI, or optionally; -- Integrated, Multi-OS scripting language and full command line control of all features; -- Industry leading security with multi-level administration and on-the-wire encryption of data; -- Ability for Windows NT, UNIX and (soon) NetWare servers to "host" non-native data from other NOS file systems, completely preserving all file attributes Fault Tolerance Features in Double-Take 3.0 When Double-Take's replication features are used among like operating systems, the software provides the following high availability and failover capabilities: -- Disaster recovery for stand alone (Solaris & NT) or MSCS clustered NT servers; -- Selective data replication and failover allows selection of data to be protected by volume, directory or even individual files; -- One-to-many server replication (One target machine can host many failed machines, good for disaster recovery -- if a site goes down with multiple servers, the target, off site machine can immediately stand in for the failed machines.); -- Open file replication support insures that large open files -- typically databases and e-mail applications -- recover with all data intact and with users able to access the applications and data as before failure. ADDITIONAL BENEFITS USING DOUBLE-TAKE + Double-Take can be used to consolidate tape backup operations: By using Double-Take to "host" data from many production file seRvers, the target server can then serve as an "offline," continuous backup station. + Loosely coupled server-to-server communications over existing network, whether Ethernet, Token Ring, etc. Source and Target servers have bandwidth control, automatic bandwidth throttling by user-defined thresholds, and efficient use of existing available bandwidth to insure the most effective and efficient processing of data possible. There is replication scheduling that will trigger either based on time (e.g. every night at 9pm connect and sync) or based on replicated data size (e.g. when XX megabytes are queued, make the connection and sync). + WAN-efficient operation makes disaster recovery and off site hosting of live data economical, reliable, and with new on the wire encryption -- secure. + Using cross-platform replication eases storage management, backup management and disaster recovery by providing one intuitive interface, whether you choose graphical, text based, command line or scripted. + Additional versions of UNIX will be added throughout 1999, with priorities given to the most popular, widespread versions within NSI's current customer base. Those customers include third-party developer and OEM arrangements with IBM and IBM Business Recovery Services, Hewlett-Packard, SunGard, Dell Computer Systems and Compaq Computer, among others. AIX, HP-UX and SCO are likely next versions available to customers. + Novell (NOVL) NetWare will be added to the cross-platform implemen- tation by Q2 1999 -- but in the meantime, Double-Take version 2.6 offers a superb NetWare-to-NetWare server replication and server failover solution. NSI Software is committed to providing continued support for NetWare. + VERIFICATION. Everybody knows that doing a backup is useless unless you can do a restore when you really need to. But who has time to actually test that? With DT V3, there is a verification function that may be scheduled as you wish. If a discrepancy is found, the Double- Take can be told to either report the problem or report and fix the out of sync data. This way you are regularly assured that the data on your source machine matches that of your target machine. Very cool... PRICING AND AVAILABILITY Double-Take 3.0 for Windows NT and Solaris is available now through all authorized NSI Software resellers and distributors. Introductory pricing starts at $1,495 per server. ABOUT DOUBLE-TAKE Double-Take(R) is the first multi-platform and cross-platform real- time data protection product for Windows NT, Unix and NetWare. Working in real time at the operating system level, Double-Take replicates selected data or complete file systems from one or more source servers to one or more target servers across existing LAN or wide area links. This patented technology is used to provide high availability for network servers, to centralize tape backup or to provide offsite disaster recovery. High availability solutions involve an advanced set of recovery techniques that reduce recovery time and eliminate or decrease the amount of information lost in a disaster or disruption. As businesses increasingly depend upon the availability of information, business recovery companies are developing offerings for this new approach. These techniques, which involve electronic transfer, may be used in lieu of conventional recovery plans for critical backup data. They shorten the recovery window by eliminating the need for physical transport of information, which may take 24 to 48 hours. ---end of attachment------------------------------------------------ Allright, I think you have got the picture ;-) Download that eval! http://www.sunbelt-software.com/dtake.htm Warm regards, Stu [cpu@ifixcomputers.com] This is a posting from the nt-list, To unsubscribe, send a blank email to leave-nt-list-245551J@lyris.sunbelt-software.com For killer servers at unbelievable prices check out: http://www.dell.com/outlet/sunbelt.htm --------------310F8BB6185984EF71CB9564-- ------------------------------------------------------------------ Unsubscribe: To: linux-biz-request@lege.com, Subject: unsubscribe From popmail Fri Jan 29 12:15:35 1999 Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 02:21:00 -0800 From: "Bradley J. Willson" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.34 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Linux User List , Linux Business List Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [linux-biz] PC/Mac Mall X-Unsubscribe: send a blank message to linux-biz-off@lege.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 23 I have tried several times to write to these guys, and every time I do I get a note back from the Sys Admin that states the reciepient is unknown... sales@hc.cc-inc.com is what is posted on their site, yet it kicks back as a bad address. The funny thing is, the line right before it is littered with MSEXCH and NT_PROXY stuff. I called the place and inquired why I could not find Linux on their site and the person (rude character) told me that UNIX was dying. When I quoted IDC stats, he responded with more UNIX is dying... He refused to say Linux. The best part of the conversation was when he told me that the problem with the e-mail was on my end, probably some incompatible software, and for some reason the rain in California makes for bad network connections and does wierd things to NT Servers. Please consider sending them a note letting them know that Linux/UNIX is not dead and they are closing their doors to cash-carrying customers...they might listen to numbers, assuming the rain hasn't gotten their server all water-logged. -- Regards, Bradley J. Willson d.b.a. Willson Consulting Services http://www.ifixcomputers.com A+ Authorized Service Center ------------------------------------------------------------------ Unsubscribe: To: linux-biz-request@lege.com, Subject: unsubscribe From popmail Sat Jan 30 12:01:19 1999 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 22:59:50 +1300 To: linux-biz@lege.com From: Andrew McClure Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: [linux-biz] redhat site down? X-Unsubscribe: send a blank message to linux-biz-off@lege.com X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 24 Sorry to trouble list members with this one, but I've been unable to access the redhat site for some time, and wondered if anyone else was having a similar problem. At my end I'm getting DNS lookup failures, and am unable to resolve the name. b.t.w if anyone has a copy of Sybase' Adaptive Server in redhat .rpm format they could stick on an anon. ftp site for me, that would be much appreciated. And now for a bit of advocacy - this was from "News Dispatcher" today. ... Meanwhile, computing heavyweights are jumping on the Linux bandwagon. Linux is taking another step toward corporate credibility as big-name computer companies like Hewlett- Packard, Compaq, IBM, and Silicon Graphics scramble to respond to swelling customer demand and add support for Linux. Among information that emerged this past week: HP said that a model of its NetServer line, traditionally Windows NT machines, will come with a version of Linux and announced a support deal with Linux distributor Red Hat that will make it easier for corporate customers to adopt Linux on Intel-based servers. Compaq has qualified Linux on the new DS20 Alpha-based servers coming next week and plans to qualify Intel-based systems in the future. IBM is in discussions with Red Hat and said it's "aggressively" evaluating Linux servers. And details emerged about Silicon Graphics' efforts to get Linux to work on its workstations. http://www.news.com/News/Item/0%2C4%2C31511%2C00.html?dd.ne.tx.wr _____________________________________ Andrew McClure Software Engineer - Wellington NZ Phone +64 4 479 2002 Mobile +64 21 671 117 _____________________________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------ Unsubscribe: To: linux-biz-request@lege.com, Subject: unsubscribe From popmail Sat Jan 30 15:02:04 1999 From: Con Zymaris To: andrew@amac.com.au (Andrew McClure) Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 22:55:09 +1100 (EST) Cc: linux-biz@lege.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL37 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [linux-biz] Re: redhat site down? X-Unsubscribe: send a blank message to linux-biz-off@lege.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 25 > Sorry to trouble list members with this one, but I've been unable > to access the redhat site for some time, and wondered if anyone > else was having a similar problem. At my end I'm getting DNS lookup > failures, and am unable to resolve the name. Red Hat is shifting offices this weekend, and their web server will be down for a little while. > > b.t.w if anyone has a copy of Sybase' Adaptive Server in redhat > .rpm format they could stick on an anon. ftp site for me, that > would be much appreciated. > > And now for a bit of advocacy - this was from "News Dispatcher" > today. > > ... Meanwhile, computing heavyweights are jumping on the Linux > bandwagon. Linux is taking another step toward corporate > credibility as big-name computer companies like Hewlett- > Packard, Compaq, IBM, and Silicon Graphics scramble to > respond to swelling customer demand and add support for Linux. > Among information that emerged this past week: HP said that a > model of its NetServer line, traditionally Windows NT machines, > will come with a version of Linux and announced a support deal > with Linux distributor Red Hat that will make it easier for corporate > customers to adopt Linux on Intel-based servers. Compaq has > qualified Linux on the new DS20 Alpha-based servers coming > next week and plans to qualify Intel-based systems in the future. > IBM is in discussions with Red Hat and said it's "aggressively" > evaluating Linux servers. And details emerged about Silicon > Graphics' efforts to get Linux to work on its workstations. > > http://www.news.com/News/Item/0%2C4%2C31511%2C00.html?dd.ne.tx.wr > Yes' it's been a whirlwind week and a whirlwind month in a whirlwind year for Linux ;-) IBM today joined Linux International. ZDNet, formerly Microsoft's biggest booster, have just published a set of benchmarkes which show that Linux leaves NT in the dust on every performance count measured. What was interesting was how much better Linux/SAMBA were at SMB serving on Microsoft networking than NT. Almost twice as good. These tests were all done on SAMBA 1.x. The killer is that I've been hearing rumours that the new SAMBA 2.x is 100% faster again.... con > Andrew McClure > Software Engineer - Wellington NZ > Phone +64 4 479 2002 > Mobile +64 21 671 117 > _____________________________________ > _____________________________________________________________________ Con Zymaris Cybersource Pty. Ltd. Unix/Windows Systems Administration and Rapid Application Development +61 3 9642 5997 Level 8, 140 Queen Street, Melbourne Australia ------------------------------------------------------------------ Unsubscribe: To: linux-biz-request@lege.com, Subject: unsubscribe From popmail Sat Jan 30 15:02:08 1999 Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 08:18:27 -0500 From: Brian Bartholomew To: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: [linux-biz] Re: redhat site down? X-Unsubscribe: send a blank message to linux-biz-off@lege.com X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 26 > ZDNet, formerly Microsoft's biggest booster, have just published a > set of benchmarkes which show that Linux leaves NT in the dust on > every performance count measured. Is this somewhere I can find it on the web? They and Byte never had any editorial integrity, I can't imagine what they think they are doing now. Odds are Microsoft is merely having a temporary setback, and they will roar back into dominance. The bully hasn't even fallen down; it is far too early to kick him. And even if the current pace of change is maintained, it will be another five to ten years before Microsoft becomes ignorable. League for Programming Freedom (LPF) ftp://ftp.uu.net/doc/lpf/patents.text ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brian Bartholomew - bb@wv.com - www.wv.com - Working Version, Cambridge, MA ------------------------------------------------------------------ Unsubscribe: To: linux-biz-request@lege.com, Subject: unsubscribe From popmail Sat Jan 30 17:40:31 1999 From: "Chris Tyler" Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 13:52:40 +0000 X-Face: *,j)>7_m)(4b*#BqizA=&l|1:3Hv?`;M@b(Vxd\)z\,ptx5nSoGeAqsNMczD,3HSQ0&j'K0rsz(S_?Q?Um.xU@T]*iuYzE0C![[A[03Su&`gX#AZ$EQOJ=naqi^auv&F[WDYVu@]A%Pv X-URL: http://Global.Proximity.ON.CA/ X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 24feb96 Caldera) To: Brian Bartholomew Cc: linux-biz@lege.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [linux-biz] Re: redhat site down? X-Unsubscribe: send a blank message to linux-biz-off@lege.com X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 27 On Jan 30, 8:18am, Brian Bartholomew wrote: > Subject: [linux-biz] Re: redhat site down? > > ZDNet, formerly Microsoft's biggest booster, have just published a > > set of benchmarkes which show that Linux leaves NT in the dust on > > every performance count measured. > > Is this somewhere I can find it on the web? Try: http://www.zdnet.com/sr/stories/issue/0,4537,387506,00.html That's the overview. Look at the sidebar links (right side) for the details, graphs, etc. This is from SRO, which has been one of the more favorable (towards Linux) ZD Pubs. -- Chris Tyler Global Proximity Corporation http://Global.Proximity.ON.CA/ Internet and Computer Consulting (519) 469-3439 / fax (519) 469-8653 ------------------------------------------------------------------ Unsubscribe: To: linux-biz-request@lege.com, Subject: unsubscribe From popmail Sat Jan 30 17:40:54 1999 From: "Cary O'Brien" To: andrew@amac.com.au (Andrew McClure) Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 09:13:37 -0500 (EST) Cc: linux-biz@lege.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [linux-biz] Re: redhat site down? X-Unsubscribe: send a blank message to linux-biz-off@lege.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 28 > > Sorry to trouble list members with this one, but I've been unable > to access the redhat site for some time, and wondered if anyone > else was having a similar problem. At my end I'm getting DNS lookup > failures, and am unable to resolve the name. > Yup. They moved their office (on a friday!). They're still down saturday morning. Kind of slack, that. A lot of people depend on the RedHat site for help/upgrades. > b.t.w if anyone has a copy of Sybase' Adaptive Server in redhat > .rpm format they could stick on an anon. ftp site for me, that > would be much appreciated. > > And now for a bit of advocacy - this was from "News Dispatcher" > today. > > ... Meanwhile, computing heavyweights are jumping on the Linux > bandwagon. Linux is taking another step toward corporate > credibility as big-name computer companies like Hewlett- > Packard, Compaq, IBM, and Silicon Graphics scramble to > respond to swelling customer demand and add support for Linux. > Among information that emerged this past week: HP said that a > model of its NetServer line, traditionally Windows NT machines, > will come with a version of Linux and announced a support deal > with Linux distributor Red Hat that will make it easier for corporate > customers to adopt Linux on Intel-based servers. Compaq has > qualified Linux on the new DS20 Alpha-based servers coming > next week and plans to qualify Intel-based systems in the future. > IBM is in discussions with Red Hat and said it's "aggressively" > evaluating Linux servers. And details emerged about Silicon > Graphics' efforts to get Linux to work on its workstations. > My conspiracy-laden mind can't shake the thought that this is all being orchestrated by Microsoft, and that when the trial is over they will focus their efforts on squashing Linux like a bug. Microsoft has a documented track record of attempting to manipulate the press. My big worry is Microsoft going through all the patents it owns (thanks to buying up little companies), and a Linux source distribution and matching things up. -- cary ------------------------------------------------------------------ Unsubscribe: To: linux-biz-request@lege.com, Subject: unsubscribe From popmail Sat Jan 30 17:41:05 1999 From: edw@detel.com (Ed Weinberg) To: Brian Bartholomew Cc: linux-biz@lege.com Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 14:23:19 GMT X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [linux-biz] Re: redhat site down? X-Unsubscribe: send a blank message to linux-biz-off@lege.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 29 On Sat, 30 Jan 1999 08:18:27 -0500, Brian Bartholomew wrote: >> ZDNet, formerly Microsoft's biggest booster, have just published a >> set of benchmarkes which show that Linux leaves NT in the dust on >> every performance count measured. > >Is this somewhere I can find it on the web? They and Byte never had >From Sm@rt Resseller, one of ZD's many magazines They compare web servers and windows networking on NT and several distributions of linux. from a related article about Linux doing windows networking: You might think that Linux would operate at a disadvantage here, but Linux kicks NT's butt. Only at the lightest loads does NT hold any advantage over the Linuxes. Once the load moves to 12 clients, all the Linux platforms take commanding leads over NT. At 32 clients, SuSE, the weakest Linux, has more than double NT's throughput, and Red Hat, the leader, extends its lead to almost 250 percent of NT's performance. FInd more at: http://www.zdnet.com/sr/stories/issue/0,4537,387506,00.html -- Ed Weinberg, Detel, Inc., An Internet Presence Provider edw@detel.com ------------------------------------------------------------------ Unsubscribe: To: linux-biz-request@lege.com, Subject: unsubscribe From popmail Sun Jan 31 22:01:00 1999 Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 12:09:19 -0800 From: "Bradley J. Willson" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.34 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Linux User List , Linux Business List Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------C08C18953C6D925DC5F6D526" Subject: [linux-biz] [Fwd: Windows NTools[tm] E-News[tm] - Windows 2000 Expectations] X-Unsubscribe: send a blank message to linux-biz-off@lege.com X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 30 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------C08C18953C6D925DC5F6D526 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit An update from the other side. -- Regards, Bradley J. Willson d.b.a. Willson Consulting Services http://www.ifixcomputers.com A+ Authorized Service Center --------------C08C18953C6D925DC5F6D526 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: by baker.cnw.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id XAA08014 for cpu@cnw.com; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 23:03:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from poseidon.sunbelt-software.com (poseidon.sunbelt-software.com [207.90.4.68]) by baker.cnw.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id XAA07997 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 23:03:43 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 19:44:7 Subject: Windows NTools[tm] E-News[tm] - Windows 2000 Expectations To: "Latest Win NT News" From: nt-list-admin@lyris.sunbelt-software.com List-Unsubscribe: Reply-To: comments@lyris.sunbelt-software.com Message-Id: Precedence: bulk Content-Type: text MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by baker.cnw.com id KAA14081 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sunbelt Windows NTools[tm] Electronic Newsletter Vol. 4, #3 - Jan 30, 1999 --- http://www.sunbelt-software.com --- ********************* NOW 170,000 SUBSCRIBERS********************* This issue of Windows NTools E-News contains: 1. "EDITORS CORNER"=20 * WINDOWS 2000 (W2K) 1999 EXPECTATIONS 2. "TECH BRIEFING" * NEW W2K STORAGE FEATURES - WHITE PAPER 3. "NT RELATED NEWS"=20 * STILL WAITING FOR W2K: WHEN? * INTERESTING BACKOFFICE ADMINISTRATOR'S CONFERENCE * MICROSOFT HAS PUT FULL TECHNET CD CONTENT ONLINE: FREE! * THE TEN BIGGEST CHANGES IN W2K 4. "NT THIRD PARTY NEWS" * RE: NEW PRODUCT ANNOUNCEMENT: SECURITY EXPLORER * NETWORK SERVANT NOW CORRECTLY DISPLAYS LAST LOGON DATE * AUTOPILOT AVAILABLE VIA ONLINE PURCHASE * NEW PRINT MANAGER PLUS V2.61 SLASHES COSTS OF PRINTING * THE 4 FLAVORS OF QUOTA ADVISOR, AND WHAT THEY DO. 5. "HINTS AND TIPS - TIME SAVERS AND OTHER GOODIES... 6. "THE NT STOCK WATCH" 7. "Y2K WATCH" 8. "HOW TO USE THE MAILING LIST" Instructions on how to subscribe, sign off or change your address. ****************WHAT IS NTOOLS E-NEWS?****************************** Sunbelt Windows NTools E-News is the World's first and largest=20 E-Newsletter designed for NT System Managers that have the job to=20 get and keep NT up & running in a production environment. Sunbelt=20 launched this electronic newsletter early 1996. Every two weeks we keep the Windows NT community informed and aware of new developments of NT and 3-rd party NT System Management Tools. You get hints and tips that will enable you to better utilize and understand Windows NT,=20 now renamed to Windows 2000 (W2K and pronounced Win-two-K). You'll find general Windows NT related and third party news, tech information, and 3-rd party beta and release information. As a subscriber to NTools E-News[tm], you will receive instant notifi- cation of important NT related events and you are also a charter=20 member of the Sunbelt Field Test Bonus Program. Sunbelt Software is=20 the first and largest distributor worldwide of Third Party System Management Tools for Windows NT with 6 subsidiaries in the US and=20 Europe. **************************SPONSOR********************************** Windows NTexplorer magazine is the #1 magazine for UK based Windows NT professionals. With an editorial focus on the management of=20 Windows NT & BackOffice components, Windows NTexplorer magazine helps IT directors, managers and project leaders decide on the direc- tion of their "NT Shop" whilst leaving the technical stuff to Windows=20 NT magazine. Claim your free copy of Windows NTexplorer magazine today! Simply email sample@ntexplorer.com with your postal details, or=20 click here http://www.ntexplorer.com. We'll send you a copy asap! ******************************************************************* 1. "EDITORS CORNER"=20 Hi NT-ers, What is happening with W2K, and do we care? Well, yes and no. This has been the world's most hyped piece of software ever for sure, we are now basically 5 years down the road from the first time that it was discussed under a multitude of code names. Many terms have been invented to describe it: slideware, vaporware, slipware, you name it. Are we anxiously biting our nails until we=20 finally get the gold release? Nope, let's get all those NT systems=20 safely to SP4 and then we'll think again. But large outfits really=20 need Active Directory to roll out NT and since it is not there,=20 Novell has a new temporary lease on life with its NDS.=20 NT is still penetrating the enterprise from the bottom up and is growing, but the growth has slowed somewhat. W2K should get that boosted again but it now looks like it will even slide in 2000. MS just announced that Beta 3 will be pushed back. Personally I think we still might see a Q4 surprise release. Not that this=20 will do much good. Nobody is going to deploy W2K right over the=20 millennium roll-over. In the mean time, everybody is finding out that to really have NT up & running in a production environment you need more tools. The 'aftermarket' for NT utilities is booming and I expect it to keep on going especially since full W2K deployment is going to be almost two years away. It is a great time for third party developers to show what time and money they save _now_ and how they are going to integrate with W2K. W2K has a raft of new features (See item: "THE TEN BIGGEST CHANGES=20 IN W2K", but does not make things easier. On the contrary actually.=20 There is tremendous opportunity for the third party community to=20 add value, especially in the Active Directory space. There are=20 significant holes in V1.0 of AD. Trusted Enterprise Manager is a=20 good example of a tool that does provides essential (system admin=20 delegation power) value now, but will positively shine in the new=20 W2K environment.=20 Let's get to work and see what's up with W2K, read on! Warm regards, Stu ******************************************************************** 2. "TECH BRIEFING" * NEW W2K STORAGE FEATURES - WHITE PAPER Windows 2000 has become VERY strong in storage management. Microsoft has come out with a White Paper that describes all the features and introduces a few new concepts which are important to understand. W2K includes a few key enhancements to the storage architecture that help large environments to scale better. The white paper describes the enhancements in NTFS. We have a copy of it on the Sunbelt website that you can pull down=20 immediately without filling out any forms or anything. It's in WORD format so it makes no sense to repeat everything. This is a warmly recommended piece to download, print, and study at home overnight with a hot cup of something and no disturbances. Here it is! http://www.sunbelt-software.com/forum/w2000storage.doc After you have read it, check out the page for Storage Resource Manager on the Sunbelt website and you will see that it is an excellent tool for right now, and will fit even better in the W2K environment. ******************************************************************** 3. "NT RELATED NEWS"=20 * STILL WAITING FOR W2K: WHEN? Well, they have pushed back the release date for the W2K Beta 3 to April instead of this Feb'99. That might well mean that it will not 'Go Gold' until Q1 or even Q2 2000. But I'm optimistic and think they might come up with it in Q4 this year. They have had enough time one would say. MS also continued the ongoing NT Server 4.0 upgrade promo until the end of June. That signals that they do not count on announcing W2K before that time, and I predict that the upgrade promo will continue to at least Q3 or Q4. The delay will start to impact the NT sales and we already see the server growth percentage slow down somewhat. "Microsoft vehemently denied that Windows 2000 would slip to the second half six months ago and now we see that it probably will," said Chris Le Toq, analyst for Dataquest. "It would be a really tough product to delive= r in the fourth quarter. The Year 2000 issue would be a big deal." Of course Chris is right. No one in their right mind is going to deploy W2K during the millennium roll-over or even 3-6 months afterward. The=20 fact that Microsoft just made a large investment in Banyan is also very interesting. Banyan is the third 'Network Directory' system in the=20 market, and has been competing with Novell's Directory Service for years. Banyan has agreed to migrate all their customers to Active Directory but MS may be having some problems with Active Directory. This shows Bill Gates' well knows strategy of always betting on more than one horse. And in the same vein, Microsoft's Terminal Server pricing finally=20 collapsed. They were under pressure right from the start and have finally caved in to user demands. They have committed to shipping the next editio= n as standard with W2K. Terminal Server is to be integrated as of Beta 3 of W2K that we will see in April.=20 The new price levels for Terminal Server basically mean that the multiuse= r server component is free. If you deduct the new license costs from a five user retail pack's price of $1,299, for example, then you're down to the ballpark price for vanilla NT Server (although admittedly this comes with Client Access Licenses too).=20 There is one other thing in the announcement that is noteworthy: the $9,9= 99 Internet Connector License. This is an idea to allow so called 'Applicati= on Service Providers' have 200 simultaneous anonymous users hook up anony- mously to NT Server Apps. 15 years ago this was called timesharing on the mainframe, the only thing different is that there is no authentication an= d it's now worldwide.=20 The kicker however is that these anonymous users are NOT allowed to be on your company payroll. You are supposed to rent it out to people outside the company. Obviously difficult to police, and this means we need to=20 watch out for something like Web-based software auditing creeping into W2= K. And to end off, on a recent little car trip to Saint Petersburg I found a company that is already well into Windows 2000 and even advertising the fact. I made a shot of their Billboard. http://www.sunbelt-software.com/win2kpic.jpg=20 ---------------------------- * INTERESTING BACKOFFICE ADMINISTRATOR'S CONFERENCE BackOffice Administrators - Finally one for YOU! The Microsoft BackOffice Administrator's Conference June 21-24,=20 1999 - Space is limited - get real-life information from leaders=20 like Sharon Dooley, Mike Hotek, Stephen Wynkoop and others. =20 Windows NT/2000, SQL Server, SMS, Site Server, IIS, Exchange=20 and more - things are changing rapidly and these changes move more=20 and more responsibility onto the plate of the administrator for=20 these systems.=20 With a focused conference, you'll have the time you need to talk=20 with speakers, to hear about real-life solutions and to network=20 with your peers. Controlled session sizes will make sure you get=20 information and techniques that pay off instantly. This conference was designed, developed and built by NT admini- strators like you. It's not about selling product, it's about=20 getting the right sessions at the right time to make your job=20 easier and your position stronger. All speakers are pre-screened to assure quality and applicability.=20 You'll get a directory of the speakers at the conference so you can=20 contact them for more information. Registration is now open! Go check out the details at: http://www.swynk.com/sunbelt ---------------------------- * MICROSOFT HAS PUT FULL TECHNET CD CONTENT ONLINE: FREE! You may have heard about it, but perhaps not. It=92s good news either way. Ever wondered how the MS tech gurus got their status? Most of them have studied Microsoft's bulky resource kits and the MS Knowledge Base. This last one covers bugs and white papers, deployment guides and tips.=20 In 1998 the only way to get your hands on all that valuable data together in one location was a subscription to the TechNet CD-ROM program for 300 bucks per year. The good news is that in January 1999 Microsoft decided t= o put the whole CD series online. And they added a few 'online-only' extra goodies. The only thing you have to do is REGISTER, and the whole TechNet= =20 CD Online is free! In case you already have the CD-ROM TechNet, keep it for a while. The=20 benefit of getting the monthly CDs is the 20-CD library of service packs, patches, and add-ons. That will save a lot of time if you have to downloa= d lots of whopping service packs, updates, or product add-ons. But the new TechNet Web has a few nice goodies. It has a Q&A column that is called the 'TechNet Mole'. It will divulge secrets from MS's own IS people. There are also candid MS product reviews written by TechNet=20 subscribers like you. It's THE place to start look when you are hit with a technical problem. Thank You Microsoft, it's a great way to use the Web. Here you go: http://www.microsoft.com/technet/ ------------------------------- * THE TEN BIGGEST CHANGES IN W2K 1) ACTIVE DIRECTORY - AD gets all company-wide administrative information organized into one single hierarchical tree-style directory. 2) IMPROVED SECURITY - W2K will provide a more secure environment by implementing 'Kerberos' based log-ins and supports IPSec. These two major changes mean significantly higher barriers against intrusions. 3) WINDOWS TERMINAL SERVER - Allows low-cost terminals or old PC's to access NT in a true oldfashioned multi-user access fashion. Saves cash for new PC hardware but not a big mainstream market. About 15% of the NT sites plan to use it I recently read. 4) APPLICATION INSTALLATION SERVICE - This puppy installs apps automatically as your users move around your network. 5) IMPROVED DISK MANAGEMENT - you can now add disk storage on-the-fly,=20 which is pretty good. Also, see the Tech Briefing as there is much more regarding that point. 6) HIERARCHICAL STORAGE MANAGEMENT - They also call this HSM and has been around forever in mini- and mainframe environments. It automatically moves infrequently used data to slower, less expensive media like tapes or juke boxes. 7) MICROSOFT MANAGEMENT CONSOLE - This promises to integrate the admin functions into a single program. It's basically a shell that you use to fire up the admin apps. 8) 64GIG MEMORY LIMIT - admittedly, having 64 GIG RAM is pretty impressiv= e. You can have a m a j o r database running in memory that way. And price= s of memory are going to continue to drop so this is promising. 9) DISK QUOTAS - NT will have built-in bare bones quotas. We have looked at them. Nice for a 25-user environment but hardly fit for enterprise use. Wait for an interesting announcement from one of the Third Party quota developers soon and read the item in below about Quota Advisor flavors. 10) WINDOWS SCRIPTING HOST - pretty powerful way to automate common tasks and allows Third Parties to hook into as well to schedule things.=20 *********************************************************************** 4. "NT THIRD PARTY NEWS" * RE: NEW PRODUCT ANNOUNCEMENT: SECURITY EXPLORER In the last issue, we pointed you all to a new tool we found out about. That caused almost a 1000 downloads and the developer called us and said that was WAY too much to follow up and if we please could help. So we jumped in and Security Explorer is now on the Sunbelt Website, we'll sell and support that tool. It's pretty cool actually. A short description:=20 "Security Explorer is a powerful and intuitive utility to search for=20 and modify Windows NT security on NTFS drives, the Registry, and Shares.=20 Search across subdirectories for permissions. Grant, revoke, and clone permissions across subdirectories without affecting any other user's=20 permissions. Select 50 shares on a server, and grant permissions to=20 multiple users and groups at one time. Export permissions to a database=20 for further analysis and reporting. Back up your file permissions and=20 restore them if necessary. Set ownership on files and directories.=20 Seamless integration with the Windows NT 4.0 Desktop (right-click just=20 about anywhere). Security Explorer makes finding security holes and=20 fixing them a snap!" http://www.sunbelt-software.com/secuexpl.htm Great tool to survive your next Security Audit and a wonderful=20 companion product with Trusted Enterprise Manager to batten down the NT hatches: http://www.sunbelt-software.com/tem.htm ------------------------------ * NETWORK SERVANT NOW CORRECTLY DISPLAYS LAST LOGON DATE We updated the website with the brand new 3.1 release of Network ServaNT. It now includes the object =91Users of domain (real last logon data)=92. = If=20 you select this object, Network ServaNT will compare the logon data from all DC=92s and choose the last one. The last logon date plays an importan= t=20 role in reports about stale user accounts. Therefore the information=20 displayed must be accurate. ------------------------------ * AUTOPILOT AVAILABLE VIA ONLINE PURCHASE AutoPilot is a performance booster for busy NT workstations and servers. One of our most active resellers has been given authority to sell=20 AutoPilot on-line via their secure electronic download section. You can now get a full copy within 10 minutes over at: http://www.softwareshelf.com/auto.htm ------------------------------ * NEW PRINT MANAGER PLUS V2.61 SLASHES COSTS OF PRINTING Slashing runaway costs of printing for schools and organizations,=20 Software Shelf International, Inc. announced the release of Print Manager Plus Version 2.6.1A for network administrators of educational institution= s and corporate environments to quota or track numbers of pages printed by users or printers. Software Shelf President Bill Feeley states, "Companies or educational institutions can really find out how much money is wasted on printing and why. A university of 25,000 students having gone NT with students on the Internet is on average printing 200 million pages per year by students at a cost of between $10 million to $30 million in paper, toner, and printer wear and tear. Windows NT or 2000 lack functionality to directly control or quota such printing across an organization or within a lab or group of students. By installing Print Manager Plus on the Windows print server this cost can be significantly reduced without loss of student production= ." Features include an End User Inquiry Tool informing users how much they=20 print. More robust, easier to use, it installs in seconds as a native NT=20 service with all user and printer names automatically pulled up with no=20 system administrator work required. All versions of Print Manager Plus=20 are Year 2000 Compliant. Print Manager Plus is already in use by=20 thousands of schools and organizations worldwide. Download 30-day eval: http://www.sunbelt-software.com/printmgr.htm ------------------------------ * THE 4 FLAVORS OF QUOTA ADVISOR, AND WHAT THEY DO. Quota Advisor is now without doubt the Market Leader in NT disk Quota tools. The advanced technology of their (patent pending) Filter Driver technology makes this tool a true second generation tool that does hard disk quotas better than the first generation utilities that use NT security to lock out users from objects. Quota Advisor is also the first tool that can assign quota's to individual _USERS_, apart from several disk objects (like home directories) that it of course does. There are now 4 flavors: - Quota Advisor Cluster Edition that fully supports MSCS - Quota Advisor 4.0 which is by far the most advanced quota tool - Quota Advisor 2.1 Enterprise Edition - Quota Advisor 2.1 Standard Edition The last two have been made cheaper so you have a choice which tool you need to use for what machine. We have compiled a grid with all the features. You should really have a good look at these features, the new V4.0 is really made based on your feedback and has a few very powerful options. If you compare the prices of Quota Advisor with other tools on the market you will find that QA is sometimes half the cost, with more features. This is the QA page: http://www.sunbelt-software.com/qa21.htm =20 And as a shortcut, this goes straight to the Grid! http://www.sunbelt-software.com/QAcomp.htm ******************************************************************** 5. "HINTS AND TIPS - TIME SAVERS AND OTHER GOODIES... Tip Regarding Tape Backup Devices: Buy technology that is FAST, but also affordable so that you can buy TWO of them. It is important you can get your hands on a critical file that sits on a backup tape in a short amount of time. Tapes fail much more than disks, so it makes sense to make more than one tape, perhaps even at the same=20 time. So buy TWO identical tape devices. That also allows you to quickly=20 restore a file _while_ you are making a backup on the other device so=20 that you do not have to interrupt that backup and put your data at=20 risk. And if you need to get tapes off-site for disaster recovery,=20 you can use a little known but highly useful utility called Media=20 Mirror that provides you with RAID1 for your tape backup devices.=20 Check it out at http://www.sunbelt-software.com/highmm.htm ******************************************************************** 6. "THE NT STOCK WATCH" Weekend Jan 30, 1999 52 WK 52 WK P/E WEEK SECURITY CLOSE HIGH LOW RATIO CHNG --------------------------------------------------------------------- Advanced Micro Devices... 22 15/16 33 12 3/4 +6.3% BMC Softwear............. 46 11/16 60 1/4 32 1/4 35 +6.2% Citrix Systems Inc....... 90 5/8 107 1/2 36 3/8 +3.8% Compaq Computer.......... 47 5/8 51 1/4 22 15/16 +3.1% Computer Associates...... 50 5/8 61 15/16 26 51 +5.6% Data General Corp........ 19 9/16 21 13/16 7 -5.1% Dell Computer............ 100 94 7/32 23 1/2 +20.4% Gateway 2000 Inc......... 77 1/4 70 3/4 35 7/8 35 +23.6% Hewlett Packard Co....... 78 3/8 82 3/8 47 1/16 28 +12.5% Intergraph Corp.......... 5 1/16 10 9/16 4 11/16 -1.2% International Business Ma 183 1/4 199 1/4 95 5/8 28 +1.9% Micron Electronics Inc... 15 3/8 24 3/4 9 11/16 25 +3.3% Microsoft Corp........... 175 174 7/16 69 1/4 74 +12.0% NCR Corp................. 48 3/4 55 3/4 23 1/2 41 -0.5% Network Associates Inc... 52 3/8 67 11/16 25 1/2 +5.8% Novell Inc............... 20 3/8 20 11/16 6 13/16 70 +6.1% Oracle Corp.............. 55 3/8 54 5/16 18 3/16 50 +11.0% Qualcomm Incorporated.... 65 13/16 67 5/8 37 3/4 41 +11.5% Qualix Group Inc......... 7 13/16 9 1/8 0 15/16 +0.8% Seagate Technology....... 40 11/16 44 1/4 16 1/8 +5.6% Silicon Graphics......... 20 9/16 19 1/4 7 3/8 +22.3% Sun Microsystems Inc..... 111 3/4 115 3/4 37 5/8 51 +14.0% Sybase Inc............... 10 3/16 11 5/8 4 1/2 -1.2% Symantec Corp............ 20 7/16 32 5/8 8 11/16 27 -10.1% Unisys Corp.............. 33 1/8 36 1/2 15 1/4 31 -3.2% Veritas Software Corp.... 83 5/8 85 23 3/4 84 +8.6% Dow Jones 30 Industrials. 9,358.83 +2.6% ******************************************************************** 7. "Y2K WATCH" Only 334 days to Jan 1, 2000=20 Americans want to know more about the Y2K glitch and how it could affect their lives and less about the reactionary fears it is causing, a new=20 survey says. The 1,002 people surveyed said the press should refrain=20 from lurid tales of gun-toting survivalists predicting Armageddon and=20 report instead on the Y2K readiness of local hospitals, governments,=20 and electric utilities. 53 percent of the public calls Y2K "one of the=20 most important issues facing the country right now."=20 This is the most interesting Y2K article that has come my way this week. http://www.wired.com/news/news/email/explode-infobeat/politics/story/1761= 1.html ******************************************************************** 8. "HOW TO USE THE MAILING LIST" Instructions on how to subscribe, sign off or change your email address TO SUBSCRIBE TO THE LIST (Tell your friends!) Click: http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/scripts/lyris.pl?join=3Dnt-list and fill out the form, simple & easy: 1 minute work. Or by email, send a blank message to the following address: join-nt-list@lyris.sunbelt-software.com _____________________________________________________ TO QUIT THE LIST 1) The Web Way: http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/scripts/lyris.pl? choose the NT-List, use your email address that is at=20 the bottom of each newsletter and leave the list via=20 the web interface. 2) The Email Way: Simply follow the personalized=20 instructions at the very end of this newsletter. _____________________________________________________ TO CHANGE YOUR ADDRESS First unsubscribe and then resubscribe as per the procedure above. ******************************************************************** FOR MORE INFORMATION On the World Wide Web point your browser to: For the newsletter and our website: USA: http://www.sunbelt-software.com Email for US sales information to: ntsales@sunbelt-software.com Email for US Tech support to: support@sunbelt-software.com Email to the US Editor: ntnews@gte.net Email for European Sales to: Europe@sunbelt.fr Email for European Tech support to: support@sunbelt.fr ******************************************************************** Things Our Lawyers Make Us Say: This document is provided for informational purposes only.=20 The information contained in this document represents the current view of Sunbelt Software Distribution on the issues discussed as of the date of publication. Because Sunbelt must respond to changes in market conditions, it should not be interpreted to be a commitment on the part of Sunbelt and Sunbelt cannot guarantee the accuracy of any informa- tion presented after the date of publication. INFORMATION PROVIDED IN THIS DOCUMENT IS PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND FREEDOM FROM INFRINGEMENT. The user assumes the entire risk as to the accuracy and the use of this document. This document may be copied and distributed subject to the following conditions: 1) All text must be copied without modification and all pages must be included; 2) All copies must contain Sunbelt's copyright notice and any other notices provided therein; and 3) This document may not be distributed for profit. All trademarks acknowledged. Copyright Sunbelt Software Distribution, Inc. 1996-1999. [cpu@ifixcomputers.com] This is a posting from the nt-list, To unsubscribe, send a blank email=20 to leave-nt-list-245551J@lyris.sunbelt-software.com For killer servers at unbelievable prices check out: http://www.dell.com/outlet/sunbelt.htm=20 --------------C08C18953C6D925DC5F6D526-- ------------------------------------------------------------------ Unsubscribe: To: linux-biz-request@lege.com, Subject: unsubscribe From popmail Sun Jan 31 22:01:37 1999 Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 15:37:53 -0500 (EST) From: Jim Hebert To: "Bradley J. Willson" cc: Linux User List , Linux Business List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [linux-biz] Re: [Fwd: Windows NTools[tm] E-News[tm] - Windows 2000 Expectations] X-Unsubscribe: send a blank message to linux-biz-off@lege.com X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 31 *sigh* I had really hoped this "trend" of posting NT-related stuff to linux-biz was going to be short lived. Apparently not. *If* it is interesting to some readers of Linux-biz, I submit that they can and should subscribe themselves to the appropriate NT-mailing lists. While I conceed that discussing things like microsoft's latest move and how it affects linux is important, I think fwding every mailing out there that mentions some product for NT or some sentiment among some segment of NT users and disecting it with "linux does that for free already, and that, and that, and that..." or "they're wrong, here's why" is at best some sort of silly group affirmation on the part of linux-biz'ers. Please let's not let linux-biz turn into the mac-evangelist sort of list that exists for exactly that sort of reason (affirmation). If such a thing is of interest to a non-negligible # of people then let's make a new list (I'll host it) or find an existing list which already serves that purpose. I'm on linux-biz to discuss ways in which people are taking advantage of linux in business, ways in which people are convincing their boss/client/etc to use linux, novel ideas for how to make linux and/or open source suceed as the foundation of business (I've forgotten the very intelligent person's name from the LPF on this list, but he's a great example I think), etc. If I'm in the wrong and all of this NT stuff is in the scope of linux-biz, someone please whap me. =) jim being a crumudgeon this morning -- Linux has been deployed in mission critical, commercial environments with an excellent pool of public testimonials... Linux outperforms many other UNIXes ... Linux is on track to eventually own the x86 UNIX market... Linux is a short/medium-term threat ... against NT Server. Linux's future strength against NT server ... is fed by ... perceived Scaleability, Interopability, Availability, and Manageability (SIAM) over NT. Linux can win.... Microsoft Internal Memo, annotated at http://www.opensource.org/halloween.html ------------------------------------------------------------------ Unsubscribe: To: linux-biz-request@lege.com, Subject: unsubscribe From popmail Sun Jan 31 23:19:57 1999 Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 13:16:37 -0800 (PST) From: Dwight Johnson To: Linux-Business cc: "Bradley J. Willson" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [linux-biz] Re: [Fwd: Windows NTools[tm] E-News[tm] - Windows 2000 Expectations] X-Unsubscribe: send a blank message to linux-biz-off@lege.com X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 32 On Sun, 31 Jan 1999, Jim Hebert wrote: > *sigh* I had really hoped this "trend" of posting NT-related stuff to > linux-biz was going to be short lived. Apparently not. I would only like to second your concern. One time was OK, but I'm not interested in continuing to see this NT newsletter on linux-biz. I do not need linux-biz for information on NT -- I can get information on NT everywhere. Thanks, Dwight -- http://linuxtoday.com ------------------------------------------------------------------ Unsubscribe: To: linux-biz-request@lege.com, Subject: unsubscribe From popmail Sun Jan 31 23:20:04 1999 Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 16:47:19 -0500 (EST) From: Evan Leibovitch To: Linux Business Mailing List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [linux-biz] Linux certification website X-Unsubscribe: send a blank message to linux-biz-off@lege.com X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 33 A group of people (myself included) have been working for some months, on a program that would allow Linux skills to be certified by a community body -- like the Novell CNE scheme, but with differences that make it uniquely Unix-like. This project is now ready to go public, asking for further community support while it refines the program. Please have a look at http://www.linuxinstitute.org and share your comments. Note: we are fully aware of the debate, in which one side claims Linux does not need certification at all. We are fully aware that this program is not for everyone, but that it attempts to serve that portion of the Linux community to which certification is important. We believe the existence of a trusted certification program will increase Linux's acceptance within the business computing mainstream. BTW, Dwight, if you see fit to bring this to the attention of Linux Today readers, it'd be much appreciated. :-) -- evan leibovitch starnix inc. tollfree: 1-87-pro-linux brampton, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products ------------------------------------------------------------------ Unsubscribe: To: linux-biz-request@lege.com, Subject: unsubscribe From popmail Mon Feb 1 06:02:47 1999 Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 22:44:27 -0500 From: Brian Bartholomew To: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: [linux-biz] Linux certification website X-Unsubscribe: send a blank message to linux-biz-off@lege.com X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 34 [ Sorry, Evan, most of your ideas are great, but this one's a dud. ] > Please have a look at http://www.linuxinstitute.org and share your > comments. [...] We believe the existence of a trusted certification > program will increase Linux's acceptance within the business > computing mainstream. If your goal is to ape the Novell/Microsoft certification process for Linux, you're on the right track. Only instead of having three levels, you should have thirty. Certifications should cover non- orthogonal skill areas so they cannot be directly compared. Don't provide clues to the certification hierarchy, such as by repeating the word "system" more times in the higher titles. Instead, name certification levels with permutations of rankless words like "network" and "engineer". Make it financially and schedully impractical for anyone to complete your highest rank, thereby awarding the authority to criticize your system. If you must award a terminal degree, first co-opt recipients financially. Back when the Novell CNE was first offered, back when there was only one level of certification, I considered getting a Novell CNE so I could flame Novell from a position of authority. There wasn't much to the test, anyone who had used Netware for a year and read the command summary manual could sleep their way through it. The multi-hundred- dollar testing fee dissuaded me. Your certifications must be very expensive and the test contents guarded with much legal saber rattling, or the vast talent pool on the net will take them apart and throw the pieces at you. Consider the impact on your credibility of a web page offering an accurate, line-by-line critique of your tests. One that explains why none of the answers is really what the customers want, it's just a parroting of the vendor's marketing this week. Certification is fundamentally a dues-paying monopoly, like a union apprenticeship. Its goals are twofold: One, it markets to outsiders, and sells the contradiction that Linux is both hard to use/learn for outsiders and easy to use/learn for insiders. Two, it keeps the young whippersnappers down so they don't compete with the old-timers. Whereas, if you truly want to identify Linux skill, you'll find you need to test for generic engineering ability, not for memorization of the details of the moment. True Linux skill is a well-rounded ability to solve problems: evaluate a situation, devise a solution, implement the solution, verify performance, and leave. Details such as the differences between distribution are recalled from memory or extracted from documentation as needed. Solutions are judged on whether they are reliable, functional, and economical. See the work SAGE is doing on Unix certification at http://www.usenix.org. They don't have an answer yet, but they do know what they don't want. League for Programming Freedom (LPF) ftp://ftp.uu.net/doc/lpf/patents.text ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brian Bartholomew - bb@wv.com - www.wv.com - Working Version, Cambridge, MA ------------------------------------------------------------------ Unsubscribe: To: linux-biz-request@lege.com, Subject: unsubscribe From popmail Mon Feb 1 08:54:30 1999 Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 23:58:16 -0500 (EST) From: Evan Leibovitch To: Brian Bartholomew cc: linux-biz@lege.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [linux-biz] Re: Linux certification website X-Unsubscribe: send a blank message to linux-biz-off@lege.com X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 35 On Sun, 31 Jan 1999, Brian Bartholomew wrote: > [ Sorry, Evan, most of your ideas are great, but this one's a dud. ] You sound like this is a one-man effort. It's not. I'm but one of a group numbering in the hundreds. Besides, I'm not so sure of what your metric of "dudness" is. As I said in the original message, it's not for everyone. The most skilled Linux people will neither need nor get certification. Our measure of success is whether anyone will respect the process and specify the certification. Like it or not, human resources people don't want to learn Linux in order to be able to hire competent Linux people. This is an (admittedly partial) answer for them. One can rail against such a system all one wants, but the fact remains that such third-party verification of basic skills is in demand. > If your goal is to ape the Novell/Microsoft certification process for > Linux, you're on the right track. Only instead of having three > levels, you should have thirty. Certifications should cover non- > orthogonal skill areas so they cannot be directly compared. Don't > provide clues to the certification hierarchy, such as by repeating the > word "system" more times in the higher titles. Instead, name > certification levels with permutations of rankless words like > "network" and "engineer". Make it financially and schedully > impractical for anyone to complete your highest rank, thereby awarding > the authority to criticize your system. If you must award a terminal > degree, first co-opt recipients financially. Thanks for the suggestions. Not likely most of them will be used, though. We're using input from trainers, people who want certification, and companies who want a well-defined level of competence. The intention is to do this, Linux style, through a process as open as possible, and as inexpensively as possible. > Your certifications must be very expensive and the test contents > guarded with much legal saber rattling, or the vast talent pool on the > net will take them apart and throw the pieces at you. Consider the > impact on your credibility of a web page offering an accurate, > line-by-line critique of your tests. One that explains why none of the > answers is really what the customers want, it's just a parroting of > the vendor's marketing this week. If you have a point to make here, I'd love to hear it -- unfortunately I'm not doing very well at separating the sarcasm from the moaning. We're trying hard to make the system work, with a broad base of input that includes students, trainers, and the IT and HR people who have been asking for it. The subject matter will be public information; if it doesn't test the skills people need, we'll know about it, and change accordingly. > Certification is fundamentally a dues-paying monopoly, like a union > apprenticeship. There are certain very real differences between this effort and the vendor-controlled CNE types. While I (think I) see your analogy, I fail to understand what point it's trying to make. > Its goals are twofold: One, it markets to outsiders, and sells the > contradiction that Linux is both hard to use/learn for outsiders and > easy to use/learn for insiders. Please explain. If your goal is to offer some constructive criticism, I'd like to understand your complaint. If your point is that certification, *any* certification, is a Bad Thing no matter how it's run, then we'll just have to agree to disagree. > Whereas, if you truly want to identify Linux skill, you'll find you > need to test for generic engineering ability, not for memorization of > the details of the moment. The program we propose acknowledges that it's limited by the testing methodology we can use. It can't, and doesn't pretend to, test one's instincts and ability to deal with the unexpected. It *does* assert that there is a fairly high number of commonly repeated tasks, and that certain fundamentals lie beneath any capable problem solving. > True Linux skill is a well-rounded ability to solve problems: Please spare me with the judgements of "true Linux skill"; there are as many judges of what constitutes that as there are Linux users. The best we can do -- and we don't claim to do more -- is to check for the basics. All the problem solving skills in the world won't help someone who doesn't know the difference between a broadcast IP and a netmask. > Details such as the differences between distribution are recalled from > memory or extracted from documentation as needed. Has it occured to you that part of the initial levels to be tested is the skill of where to look for asisstance, siupport and documentation? What Linux "old timers" often forget is how hard the initial learning curve was (and essentially, still is). What some may think of as second nature is often something that must be taught and tested. > See the work SAGE is doing on Unix certification at > http://www.usenix.org. They don't have an answer yet, but they do > know what they don't want. We did better than that; one of the group's leaders attended the SAGE certification session at the last Usenix. They don't know what they want, they don't know what they don't want, they don't even know what questions to ask. They've been chasing their tails for eight years and have no end in sight -- as a result, they will be simply ignored by those who *do* want a certification program. Indeed, that's what this is all about -- supply and demand. Where programs like this differ from traditional Linux projects is that they're being driven by the needs of end users rather than developers. If nobody wanted certification there'd be no reason to create it; this is a community, non-profit effort and we're not in it for the money. It exists because, lime a programmer inventing a new tool, we saw a need that existed in some specific parts of the community. -- evan leibovitch starnix inc. tollfree: 1-87-pro-linux brampton, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products ------------------------------------------------------------------ Unsubscribe: To: linux-biz-request@lege.com, Subject: unsubscribe From popmail Mon Feb 1 08:55:04 1999 Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 06:28:51 +0000 From: "Don 'Morc' Lafontaine" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Evan Leibovitch CC: Brian Bartholomew , linux-biz@lege.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [linux-biz] Re: Linux certification website X-Unsubscribe: send a blank message to linux-biz-off@lege.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 36 Evan Leibovitch wrote: > On Sun, 31 Jan 1999, Brian Bartholomew wrote: > > > [ Sorry, Evan, most of your ideas are great, but this one's a dud. ] > > You sound like this is a one-man effort. It's not. I'm but one of a group > numbering in the hundreds. > > Besides, I'm not so sure of what your metric of "dudness" is. As I said in > the original message, it's not for everyone. The most skilled Linux people > will neither need nor get certification. Our measure of success is whether > anyone will respect the process and specify the certification. > > Like it or not, human resources people don't want to learn Linux in order > to be able to hire competent Linux people. This is an (admittedly partial) > answer for them. One can rail against such a system all one wants, but the > fact remains that such third-party verification of basic skills is in > demand. Agreed. Where I work, they seriously look at this kind of certification. > > True Linux skill is a well-rounded ability to solve problems: Heh, good one. Don Lafontaine ------------------------------------------------------------------ Unsubscribe: To: linux-biz-request@lege.com, Subject: unsubscribe From popmail Mon Feb 1 10:02:48 1999 From: "awan kelana" To: linux-biz@lege.com Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 23:44:40 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Subject: [linux-biz] tell to hostinvestigator.com X-Unsubscribe: send a blank message to linux-biz-off@lege.com X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 37 hi guys, get a visit to www.hostinvestigator.com. this site need a comment about NT vs UNIX (maybe LINUX, too). i visited this site 1st Feb 99. i'm not promoting this site, :) (It's true) n.awan ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------ Unsubscribe: To: linux-biz-request@lege.com, Subject: unsubscribe From popmail Mon Feb 1 10:02:47 1999 Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 02:38:43 -0500 (EST) From: Jim Hebert To: Dwight Johnson cc: Linux-Business , "Bradley J. Willson" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [linux-biz] Re: [Fwd: Windows NTools[tm] E-News[tm] - Windows 2000 Expectations] X-Unsubscribe: send a blank message to linux-biz-off@lege.com X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 38 On Sun, 31 Jan 1999, Dwight Johnson wrote: > On Sun, 31 Jan 1999, Jim Hebert wrote: > > > *sigh* I had really hoped this "trend" of posting NT-related stuff to > > linux-biz was going to be short lived. Apparently not. > > I would only like to second your concern. One time was OK, but I'm not After discussing this off list, I'll just throw out that no one else need second or third this: I was plenty mean to him. =) At the same time I am offering to host a mailing list for this sort of discussion if it was of interest to a substantial number of people, and some of those people were willing to actually cull the NT press that they wished to, er, discuss. (Of course, things that were reproduction-restricted in some way I'd hope you'd use your judgement on to keep my liability as list-host down, eh?) Private email please if there is interest. jim volunteering Compu-Aid's hardware again. ;-P ------------------------------------------------------------------ Unsubscribe: To: linux-biz-request@lege.com, Subject: unsubscribe From popmail Mon Feb 1 10:03:23 1999 Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 00:17:18 -0800 (PST) From: Dwight Johnson To: Linux-Business MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [linux-biz] Who is using what? X-Unsubscribe: send a blank message to linux-biz-off@lege.com X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 39 This table (the sites the author visits most often) was in the article 'Apple and Linux: What Me Worry?': http://macopinion.com/columns/utopia/feb99/up-46.html www.macosrumors.com Apache 1.3.3 Unix, unspecified www.mactimes.com Apache 1.3.1 Unix, unspecified www.macopinion.com Apache 1.3.3 FreeBSD (1) www.maccentral.com Apache 1.2.5 FreeBSD (2) www.versiontracker.com Apache 1.2.6 FredBSD www.macfixit.com Apache 1.2.5 FreeBSD www.macsonly.com Apache 1.3.3 FreeBSD (1) www.applelinks.com Apache 1.2.5 FreeBSD (2) www.macsurfer.com Apache 1.2.6 Solaris www.macnn.com Apache 1.3.3 Linux www.insanely-great.com Apache 1.2.6 Linux www.enigmaworks.com Apache 1.2.5 Linux www.appleinsider.com Apache 1.3.3 Linux www.mackido.com Apache 1.2.6 Linux www.infoworld.com Apache 1.2.6 IRIX www.stepwise.com Apache 1.2.6 SCO Unix www.macintouch.com Webstar 3.0.1 MacOS applewizards.net Webstar 3.0.2 MacOS www.abbottsys.com Webstar 1.2.1 MacOS (Don Crabb) www.macweek.com Netscape-E 2.01 Solaris (3) www.apple.com Netscape-E 3.5.1C Solaris (3) www.pbs.org Netscape-E 2.01 Solaris (3) www.zdnet.com Netscape-E 3.5.1G Solaris (3) www.macworld.com Netscape-E 2.01 Solaris (3) www.sgi.com Netscape-E 3.5.1G IRIX (3) www.macaddict.com Netscape-E 2.0a n/a (3) probably Unix www.ibm.com Domino-Go AIX www.del.com MS IIS 4.0 WinNT 4 www.gateway.com MS IIS 4.0 WinNT 4 www.compaq.com MS IIS 4.0 WinNT 4 www.intel.com MS IIS 4.0 n/a probably NT 4 (1) & (2): these might be the same system. (3) Netscape Enterprise Dwight -- http://linuxtoday.com ------------------------------------------------------------------ Unsubscribe: To: linux-biz-request@lege.com, Subject: unsubscribe From popmail Mon Feb 1 12:01:44 1999 Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 04:00:32 -0500 From: Brian Bartholomew To: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: [linux-biz] Re: Linux certification website X-Unsubscribe: send a blank message to linux-biz-off@lege.com X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 40 I agree with you that it would be a fine thing to be able to objectively measure someone's Linux skill. And I agree this would be a highly useful thing for both buyers and sellers. And so far as it separates truth from falsehood, it's a good thing. But I don't think you can deliver it. The vendor-based CNE things are just offshoots of their marketing departments. This makes them worth than useless, because they poison attempts to test for true skill. The non-vendor ratings like SAE (auto mechanics) or ISO 9000 are almost as bad. As soon as the lack of a rating starts cutting into sales, the rating is achieved by any means possible, few of them relating to skill in domain. You have two problems, one technical and one legal. The technical problem is, you can't prove someone knows how to compose a piece of music, write a book, design a bridge, or build a computing infrastructure, with a multiple-guess test. The test-evaluating- instrument needs more computing power than you can pack into a bubble scanner. Universities spend five years trying to prove somebody has the basic ability to solve problems, and they fail. The legal problem is that if your ratings are accepted as standard, you will be sued into oblivion. It's a lot cheaper to sue you than to jump through your hoops. The basic function of a certification program is to separate the world into 'know' and 'know-nots'. To pass judgment on people's careers. You need to deal with the concerns generated by the power issues before you can consider the technical ones. I'm sure you're a bunch of upstanding guys and all. But what due process do I have if I don't get the certification I believe I deserve? What is your appeals process? Will you give affirmative- action breaks to minority and veteran-owned businesses? What about people who fail, but tried real hard? These questions are real-world legal fact. If you are successful, you will get these challenges. ----- > The most skilled Linux people will neither need nor get > certification. That doesn't make sense. If you succeed in promoting your certification as a standard, everyone will have to be rated. Why would HR believe an excuse like 'I don't need that certification, I'm too senior'. Anybody can say that. Obviously if you could just dash off the test answers like you claim you could, you would have done so. Therefore, your certification must rank the senior people, too. A certification process encourages HR to use keyword-matching instead of their brains. This is a bad thing. A process that denies someone a job they could legitimately do does not serve the candidate *or* HR. 'Sorry Mr. Torvolds (or Mr. Leibovitch), you don't have the certification we're looking for.' > Like it or not, human resources people don't want to learn Linux in > order to be able to hire competent Linux people. And if you're looking for a honest and competent auto mechanic, just look for the "SAE" sign out front. Can you name a dozen skill-type rating systems you trust your own money to? > We did better than that; one of the group's leaders attended the > SAGE certification session at the last Usenix. They don't know what > they want, they don't know what they don't want, they don't even > know what questions to ask. They've been chasing their tails for > eight years and have no end in sight -- as a result, they will be > simply ignored by those who *do* want a certification program. I will agree with some of that. They do know they don't want the sort of SAT-type standardized test that lends itself to rote memorization without understanding. They do know they can test for the skills they want with personal interviews. They don't know how to package interviews in a form that can be graded on a scanner, and will survive test hacking. If they want to keep SAT-type certifications out of the Unix market, they will have to promote their point of view more actively. SAGE people are often in a hiring role, and if they could winnow their huge pile of inappropriate resumes with a mechanism as cheap as a standardized test, they'd do it in a heartbeat. Unfortunately, all the tests that are cheap enough to apply in bulk test for a list of trivia, not understanding. I work both sides of the fence here. I'd like a certification that would showcase my ability to perform real tasks in the real world. The sort of certification where my name comes up as the answer to 'who would you like to be stranded on a desert island with, four hours before a tidal wave hits, if you could bring a linux CD, a satellite radio, and a laptop'. On the other hand, I am often called upon to hire people, and I'm looking for somebody who can do a job, not pass tests. I want a candidate with a basic understanding of the task, what the pieces are, what the pieces do, how to debug, and when she is in over her head. I don't get this from knowing the candidate has parroted at least once that a certain file is in /usr/foo/whatsit, because they've memorized a list of questions and answers for a certification test. League for Programming Freedom (LPF) ftp://ftp.uu.net/doc/lpf/patents.text ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brian Bartholomew - bb@wv.com - www.wv.com - Working Version, Cambridge, MA ------------------------------------------------------------------ Unsubscribe: To: linux-biz-request@lege.com, Subject: unsubscribe From popmail Mon Feb 1 16:14:10 1999 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 05:51:07 -0800 To: Linux Business Mailing List From: rich bodo Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: [linux-biz] Re: Linux certification website X-Unsubscribe: send a blank message to linux-biz-off@lege.com X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 41 First, I have actually found certification exams to be a rather fun way to learn. I have studied with some people who never had the time and money for college degree (the most expensive certification). So this is a non-profit project? Why not run it like every other Linux project, and just post the exams to the web. Someone will. Then people can self-test any time, maybe even during an interview from a random selection of an-ever growing base of questions(HP and Microsoft are drooling). Maybe what Linux needs is a comittee to vote on objectives and related questions, so that the free-exams can be maintained. They don't have to just be mulitple choice, either. The best two certification exams I have seen are the Sun Java Developer Certification Exam and the Cisco exams. SJDC sends a randomly generated programming problem to you requiring knowledge in most areas of Java programming to complete. You complete it and bring it in to the testing center, and proceed to answer essay questions about YOUR solution. When you finish, your solution and your Q&A are e-mailed to a grader. They tell you what you did right or wrong. Cisco has a written test and a lab test. They break things in the lab, and you go in an fix the network. They tell you what you did right or wrong. Both of those exams deserve to cost money. You are paying someone to spend time with you and to grade your work and help you learn from your mistakes. Thankfully, neither one really tries to catch you cheating. Either you want to learn or you don't. There is NO WAY in this day and age anyone in the Linux community should have to pay to have someone look over their shoulder while they answer a multiple choice test that will only be run through a perl script. (Sylvan uses win3.1 and visual basic, even for the java exams, quite repulsive.) In summary, if you want to help, make ALL of the exam materials free. Form a committee to vote on that stuff. Charge for training and grading the labs. -Rich > >A group of people (myself included) have been working for some months, on >a program that would allow Linux skills to be certified by a community >body -- like the Novell CNE scheme, but with differences that make it >uniquely Unix-like. This project is now ready to go public, asking for >further community support while it refines the program. > >Please have a look at http://www.linuxinstitute.org and share your >comments. > >Note: we are fully aware of the debate, in which one side claims Linux >does not need certification at all. We are fully aware that this program >is not for everyone, but that it attempts to serve that portion of the >Linux community to which certification is important. We believe the >existence of a trusted certification program will increase Linux's >acceptance within the business computing mainstream. > >BTW, Dwight, if you see fit to bring this to the attention of Linux Today >readers, it'd be much appreciated. :-) > >-- >evan leibovitch starnix inc. >tollfree: 1-87-pro-linux brampton, ontario, canada >http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------ >Unsubscribe: To: linux-biz-request@lege.com, Subject: unsubscribe > > From popmail Mon Feb 1 16:54:10 1999 Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 09:43:30 -0500 (EST) From: Evan Leibovitch To: Linux Business Mailing List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [linux-biz] Re: Linux certification website X-Unsubscribe: send a blank message to linux-biz-off@lege.com X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 42 A number of people on this list have written privately to express support for the certification proposal, which by my own admission is in part an attempt to get Linux acceptable to Dilbert's boss. Just the same, this debate is useful. At least some of Brian's points need to be addressed if we are to accomplish what we seek. On Mon, 1 Feb 1999, Brian Bartholomew wrote: > The vendor-based CNE things are just offshoots of their marketing > departments. This makes them worth than useless, because they poison > attempts to test for true skill. The non-vendor ratings like SAE > (auto mechanics) or ISO 9000 are almost as bad. As soon as the lack > of a rating starts cutting into sales, the rating is achieved by any > means possible, few of them relating to skill in domain. Agreed and understood. This is why some other efforts at certification, which say they will deliver their exams through the web, cannot succeed. Too easy to cheat. We can't be perfect, but to a small extent security will be an important part of the final implementation. > You have two problems, one technical and one legal. > > The technical problem is, you can't prove someone knows how to compose > a piece of music, write a book, design a bridge, or build a computing > infrastructure, with a multiple-guess test. Correct. And we don't intend to try. As I said, what we will be testing will be specific, will *never* pretend to be comprehensive or test "quick thinking" skills. Also, it will be freely available (so that anyone wanting to write books or design training can see what *our* target is). > The legal problem is that if your ratings are accepted as standard, > you will be sued into oblivion. Ah, the American mindset -- not every country is as litigation-crazy as yours. Not all of them allow for lawyers to collect a percentage of the award as a fee, or tolerate frivolous lawsuits as gently. You do make a reasonable case, perhaps, why the certification body, when it does incorporate, should not be based in the US. > It's a lot cheaper to sue you than to jump through your hoops. That all depends on how cheap it is to sue us, now doesn't it ;-)? > The basic function of a certification program is to separate the world > into 'know' and 'know-nots'. ...for those who are anal enough to require such binary decisions, unfortunately yes. The alternative, if they cannot have such distinctions handed to them on a platter, is not to use Linux. > To pass judgment on people's careers. Only to a point. Employers with existing Linux smarts will have less use for our program. > You need to deal with the concerns generated by the power issues > before you can consider the technical ones. And, FWIW, we have people on our committees who are veterans of developing other programs, and may -- we hope -- help us deal with these issues. > I'm sure you're a bunch of upstanding guys and all. But what due > process do I have if I don't get the certification I believe I > deserve? What is your appeals process? A reasonable question, and one I'm sure will need to be addressed. > Will you give affirmative- action breaks to minority and veteran-owned > businesses? Again, think beyond your own borders. You're describing government policy of one country. This program is intended to be launched world-wide, and its board is already multi-national. As such should, it not be susceptable to national politics. It's one thing to be gender and race neutral on an exam -- if any particular society wants to subsidize particular groups, fine, go crazy. It won't affect the exam itself, nor the fact we'll be operating on a cost-recovery basis. > What about people who fail, but tried real hard? These questions are > real-world legal fact. If you are successful, you will get these > challenges. Only, in my experience, from (as you say) Americans who will believe it's easier to sue than to follow the system. You make a compelling case for an international program based outside the US. This has the double advantage of naturally increasing the cost of litigation by Americans, while existing in a jurisdiction less favourable to such entitlement claims. > > The most skilled Linux people will neither need nor get > > certification. > That doesn't make sense. If you succeed in promoting your > certification as a standard, everyone will have to be rated. Nope. Just those who want to get hired/contracted by companies needing the certification. We anticipate that many companies will not need it, or allow existing Linux work to act as a substitute. > A certification process encourages HR to use keyword-matching instead > of their brains. This is a bad thing. Wishful thinking. HR already insists upon keyword-matching whether we encourage it or not. If we don't provide for it, they simply won't hire Linux talent period. This whole process wouldn't be underway, with so many people behind it, if HR wasn't demending it. > A process that denies someone a job they could legitimately do does > not serve the candidate *or* HR. 'Sorry Mr. Torvolds (or Mr. > Leibovitch), you don't have the certification we're looking for.' Then that HR department loses out on people who won't be certified. > > Like it or not, human resources people don't want to learn Linux in > > order to be able to hire competent Linux people. > And if you're looking for a honest and competent auto mechanic, just > look for the "SAE" sign out front. Can you name a dozen skill-type > rating systems you trust your own money to? Again, you're treating certification as the be-all and end-all in a decision-making process; it's but one tool. I won't go to a garage that *doesn't* have certified mechanics, but my final choice between them will be on other criteria. Multiple candidates with equal certification levels will still need to be interviewed; the certification only tests the floor of the skills required, not the ceiling. > > We did better than that; one of the group's leaders attended the > > SAGE certification session at the last Usenix. They don't know what > > they want, they don't know what they don't want, they don't even > > know what questions to ask. They've been chasing their tails for > > eight years and have no end in sight -- as a result, they will be > > simply ignored by those who *do* want a certification program. > I will agree with some of that. They do know they don't want the sort > of SAT-type standardized test that lends itself to rote memorization > without understanding. They do know they can test for the skills they > want with personal interviews. They don't know how to package > interviews in a form that can be graded on a scanner, and will survive > test hacking. If they want to keep SAT-type certifications out of the > Unix market, they will have to promote their point of view more > actively. Well, they've certainly failed so far, else the demand that sparked our effort would never exist. (Followup; Brian suggested that we investigate what SAGE is doing. In fact it's just the opposite. Yesterday SAGE called Dan, the guy from our steering committee who attended that Boston SAGE certification session, asking for him to be a part of the SAGE certfication effort. We must have some ideas they like...) > SAGE people are often in a hiring role, and if they could winnow their > huge pile of inappropriate resumes with a mechanism as cheap as a > standardized test, they'd do it in a heartbeat. And SAGE is massively divided on that issue. Many of its people *want* to do it in a heartbeat, and believe it's possible. Others believe otherwise. The result is an eight-year-old paralyzing standoff. > Unfortunately, all the tests that are cheap enough to apply in bulk > test for a list of trivia, not understanding. Both the facts and the understanding of them are required, no argument there. But just because we can't test for all of it, doesn't mean we shouldn't test for any of it. > I am often called upon to hire people, and I'm looking for somebody > who can do a job, not pass tests. I want a candidate with a basic > understanding of the task, what the pieces are, what the pieces do, > how to debug, and when she is in over her head. I don't get this from > knowing the candidate has parroted at least once that a certain file > is in /usr/foo/whatsit, because they've memorized a list of questions > and answers for a certification test. There are certain AI techniques that people in the group are already suggesting as a way to reduce the ability to pass the exams by simple rote. There are also ways to word questions, such that even multiple-choicers can be extremely challenging to those without understanding. In the meantime, it suits me just fine that people like you can and will do hiring without the need for our certification. Chances are, you will probably end up hiring better people than those who *do* require it because they're inable (or too lazy) to research the minimum skills themselves. However, that doesn't mask the issue that others need certification as an alternative to no minimum standards at all. -- evan leibovitch starnix inc. tollfree: 1-87-pro-linux brampton, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products ------------------------------------------------------------------ Unsubscribe: To: linux-biz-request@lege.com, Subject: unsubscribe From popmail Mon Feb 1 16:54:16 1999 Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 09:50:36 -0500 From: rfi from Rich Roth To: linux-biz@lege.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95i Subject: [linux-biz] Re: Linux certification website X-Unsubscribe: send a blank message to linux-biz-off@lege.com X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 43 On Mon, Feb 01, 1999 at 04:00:32AM -0500, Brian Bartholomew wrote: ..... > jump through your hoops. The basic function of a certification > program is to separate the world into 'know' and 'know-nots'. To pass > judgment on people's careers. You need to deal with the concerns > generated by the power issues before you can consider the technical .... > > The most skilled Linux people will neither need nor get > > certification. > > That doesn't make sense. If you succeed in promoting your > certification as a standard, everyone will have to be rated. Brian has very eloquently stated what I was thinking. > Why > would HR believe an excuse like 'I don't need that certification, I'm > too senior'. Anybody can say that. Obviously if you could just dash > off the test answers like you claim you could, you would have done so. > Therefore, your certification must rank the senior people, too. This one gives me a laugh and it reminds me of the answer given by the CS department of a major Univ at the freshmen orientation, after the civil (and other engineering) told how all graduates got their XYZ certified engineer when they graduated, the answer was (and it loses the effect without the real school name): "We are Stanford and above all that" - laugh and end of discussion. The reality of certications in the computer field is that they rarely really work OR they are the kind of hiring criteria used by HR, (and other managers) who really don't know what they need, and usually both. Having said all that, I have been considering the certification problem for linux and MIS types and am supportive of the concept but not too pleased with the basic testing approach. How about a peer-rating system ? Granted, this has it's problems too, but it's more in the spirit of the linux world. After all, isn't part of linux and open source about doing things differently ?? -- Later ... Rich Roth --- On-the-Net Direct: Box 927, Northampton, MA 01061, Voice: 413-586-9668 Email: rich@on-the-net.com Url: http://www.on-the-net.com ~~~ www.i-depth.com lets you Add Instant Depth to your Website ~~~ ~~~ Adding depths to Web presences and Internet providers ~~~~~ ------------------------------------------------------------------ Unsubscribe: To: linux-biz-request@lege.com, Subject: unsubscribe From popmail Mon Feb 1 16:55:05 1999 Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 10:06:54 -0500 (EST) From: Evan Leibovitch To: rich bodo cc: Linux Business Mailing List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [linux-biz] Re: Linux certification website X-Unsubscribe: send a blank message to linux-biz-off@lege.com X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 44 On Mon, 1 Feb 1999, rich bodo wrote: > So this is a non-profit project? Why not run it like every other Linux > project, and just post the exams to the web. Someone will. Then people > can self-test any time, maybe even during an interview from a random > selection of an-ever growing base of questions(HP and Microsoft are > drooling). This approach is being actively debated. The main objection is that the kind of questions which can best determine understanding are not easily producable in huge quantities. I don't claim to have the answer, and I'm not part of the sub-group thrashing that out. > Maybe what Linux needs is a comittee to vote on objectives and > related questions, so that the free-exams can be maintained. They don't > have to just be mulitple choice, either. One of our goals is to freely publish the goals to be tested by our exams. We hope that many third parties will produce study materials, some of them freely available. > SJDC sends a randomly generated programming problem to you requiring > knowledge in most areas of Java programming to complete. You complete it > and bring it in to the testing center, and proceed to answer essay > questions about YOUR solution. When you finish, your solution and your Q&A > are e-mailed to a grader. They tell you what you did right or wrong. > > Cisco has a written test and a lab test. They break things in the lab, and > you go in an fix the network. They tell you what you did right or wrong. > > Both of those exams deserve to cost money. You are paying someone to spend > time with you and to grade your work and help you learn from your mistakes. > Thankfully, neither one really tries to catch you cheating. Either you > want to learn or you don't. All these approaches are being considered. We're trying to strike a delicate balance between being thorough, accessible, and trusted by the organizations that want such certification in the first place. No matter what compromise we choose, we will get complaints about being too expensive, or too trivial, or too insecure. But the difficulty of making a program should not prevent one from happening. > There is NO WAY in this day and age anyone in the Linux community should > have to pay to have someone look over their shoulder while they answer a > multiple choice test that will only be run through a perl script. (Sylvan > uses win3.1 and visual basic, even for the java exams, quite repulsive.) I like to think I've gone beyond insulting people or organizations based on their choice of tools. What matters is the end product. > In summary, if you want to help, make ALL of the exam materials free. That all depends -- who are we trying to help? Who are the *primary* consumers of a certification program? This is not a conventional Linux project -- it is not being made by developers for developers. > Form a committee to vote on that stuff. Charge for training and > grading the labs. Look at the website. We have plenty of committees already. -- evan leibovitch starnix inc. tollfree: 1-87-pro-linux brampton, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products ------------------------------------------------------------------ Unsubscribe: To: linux-biz-request@lege.com, Subject: unsubscribe From popmail Mon Feb 1 17:50:57 1999 Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 16:05:36 +0100 From: Cyril Chaboisseau X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Linux-Business Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [linux-biz] Re: Who is using what? X-Unsubscribe: send a blank message to linux-biz-off@lege.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 45 Dwight Johnson wrote: > > This table (the sites the author visits most often) was in the article > 'Apple and Linux: What Me Worry?': > http://macopinion.com/columns/utopia/feb99/up-46.html [...] for those who are interrested in such surveys, here is another OS/site list at http://lwn.net/1998/1022/osprefs.html from the author of nmap (more advanced successor of queso, another OS detector+) # "Hacker" sites www.l0pht.com => OpenBSD 2.2 - 2.4 www.insecure.org => Linux 2.0.31-34 www.rhino9.ml.org => Windows 95/NT # No comment :) www.technotronic.com => Linux 2.0.31-34 www.2600.com => FreeBSD 2.2.6 - 3.0 Beta www.kevinmitnick.com => Linux 2.0.31-34 # Free Kevin! www.antionline.com => FreeBSD 2.2.6 - 3.0 Beta www.rootshell.com => Linux 2.0.35 # Security vendors, consultants, etc. www.repsec.com => Linux 2.0.35 www.iss.net => Linux 2.0.31-34 www.checkpoint.com => Solaris 2.5 - 2.51 www.infowar.com => Win95/NT # Vendor loyalty to their OS www.li.org => Linux 2.0.35 # Linux International www.redhat.com => Linux 2.0.31-34 # I wonder what distribution :) www.debian.org => Linux 2.0.35 www.linux.org => Linux 2.1.122 # Might be another 2.1.X version www.sgi.com => IRIX 6.2 - 6.4 www.netbsd.org => NetBSD 1.3X www.openbsd.org => Solaris 2.6 # Ahem :) www.freebsd.org => FreeBSD 2.2.6-3.0 Beta # Ivy league www.harvard.edu => Solaris 2.6 www.yale.edu => Solaris 2.5 - 2.51 www.caltech.edu => SunOS 4.1.2-4.1.4 # Hello! This is the 90's :) www.mit.edu => Solaris 2.5 - 2.51 # Coincidence that the good # schools all seem to like Sun? # perhaps it is the 40% .edu # discount. # Lamer sites www.aol.com => IRIX 6.2 - 6.4 # No wonder they are so insecure :) www.happyhacker.org => OpenBSD 2.2-2.4 # Sick of being owned, Carolyn? # Misc www.lwn.net => Linux 2.0.31-34 # This Linux news site rocks! www.whitehouse.gov => IRIX 5.3 and the (unfortunately stopped) OSI counter which gave Linux approximately 30% of all systems on the Internet back in Sept. 1998 : http://www.hzo.cubenet.de/ioscount/ (anyone willing to continue such a survey ?!) -- Cyril Chaboisseau mailto:Cyril.Chaboisseau@Obs.CoE.int ------------------------------------------------------------------ Unsubscribe: To: linux-biz-request@lege.com, Subject: unsubscribe From popmail Mon Feb 1 17:51:06 1999 Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 10:26:34 -0500 (EST) From: Evan Leibovitch To: rfi from Rich Roth cc: linux-biz@lege.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [linux-biz] Re: Linux certification website X-Unsubscribe: send a blank message to linux-biz-off@lege.com X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 46 On Mon, 1 Feb 1999, rfi from Rich Roth wrote: > I have been considering the certification problem for linux and MIS > types and am supportive of the concept but not too pleased with the > basic testing approach. > How about a peer-rating system ? Granted, this has it's problems too, but > it's more in the spirit of the linux world. After all, isn't part of linux > and open source about doing things differently ?? Please feel welcome to join the program committee and help advance that route. While we look around and see the programs that have already succeeded in this field, we're also aware that Linux has changed the rules of a great many games. This is not a closed shop. The committees are open to anyone who wants to get involved. http://www.linuxinstitute.org/tli/involved.html -- evan leibovitch starnix inc. tollfree: 1-87-pro-linux brampton, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products ------------------------------------------------------------------ Unsubscribe: To: linux-biz-request@lege.com, Subject: unsubscribe From popmail Mon Feb 1 17:51:11 1999 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 10:29:02 -0500 To: linux-biz@lege.com From: Bill White Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: [linux-biz] Re: Linux Certification website X-Unsubscribe: send a blank message to linux-biz-off@lege.com X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 47 I have two random thoughts about this: 1.) How often do you go to a physician or a dentist who doesn't have a medical degree? How often do you buy a house using an attourney who doesn't have a law degree? How about someone who hasn't passed the bar or the medical examinations? It might be possible to learn medicine or law without going to a law school, and there may uncertified doctors or lawyers who are more skilled and knowledgeable than certified doctors or lawyers, but I wouldn't use them. 2.) If the result of this exercize is to decide (a) who knows their stuff, (b) what the stuff is, and (3) figure out how to teach people to know their stuff, maybe part of the certification at linuxinstitute.org should be a web-based course which one could take. I know that Sun has some sort of Java related course which is offered in conjunction with some Canadian University, and which at one time could be found by looking through their Web site. I don't know anything about the quality of this course. I realize this is a big investment of time, but it seems like what is wanted. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Unsubscribe: To: linux-biz-request@lege.com, Subject: unsubscribe From popmail Mon Feb 1 19:43:23 1999 Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:26:38 -0500 From: Brian Bartholomew To: linux-biz@lege.com Subject: [linux-biz] Re: Linux certification website X-Unsubscribe: send a blank message to linux-biz-off@lege.com X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 48 > SJDC sends a randomly generated programming problem to you requiring > knowledge in most areas of Java programming to complete. You > complete it and bring it in to the testing center, and proceed to > answer essay questions about YOUR solution. When you finish, your > solution and your Q&A are e-mailed to a grad